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08 LTZ - Bad Tranny?

31K views 35 replies 12 participants last post by  cp-the-nerd 
#1 ·
Hi folks,

This morning I was driving into work and about 25 miles in, I have a spot where I need to jump on the accelerator a bit to merge into a higher-speed highway. Things were acting just fine until I jumped on it.

At first it wouldn't accelerate (which was a bit scary considering the situation) so I pushed it into neutral and re-engaged drive. It kicked back into gear and I made it up the road about a 1/4 mile at which time it started slipping again. Flipped it into neutral and back to drive again, this time my tachometer was flipping out so I dropped it into manual mode and found it was in 5th gear so I let off the gas completely (I was already at a crawl) and brought it down to 2nd gear where it engaged and drove a bit further while I kept it around 2300 RPM. Eventually I had a spot to pull over and got off to the side, called a cop to direct traffic, and got a tow.

The car's reverse was completely gone. It would somewhat drive forward but would spin up fast with a slightest amount of gas.

The tow truck driver was unwilling to take me to Ammco instead taking me to a local gas station (white plains NY) to have it checked out. The mechanic drove it for a moment said it was a blown transmission and that he would look for a used one and would call me back (so far no call...thankfully as of now).

Crawling around the forums, I came across TSB 09-07-30-012D, which speaks to a crappy 3,5,R Wave Plate in the 6T60 six-speed transmissions. It matches my experience exactly, especially the complete loss of reverse.

So now how do I tell this guy at this local garage that 1. I do NOT want a used transmission (and end up with the same wave plate) and 2. To ensure that if/when it's rebuilt, they'll actually get the corrected wave plate?

Despite only having 82000 miles on it, this car has been quite flawed. Head-gaskets blew out about a month before my warranty was up last January (thankfully) so the entire block was replaced at that point. Now my transmission is shot.

Is there any trade-in value for an A-1 quality Malibu LTZ with a shot transmission? OR, does it make more sense to get this thing fixed and unloaded it asap after that?

He's quoting me around $2200 for a rebuild and that doesn't include tow or labor it seems. Which, on the East Coast, seems like the going rate for work. I'd prefer to have a dealer do it if it means I get the right wave plate installed (and the case cleaned out from its expected shrapnel).


Does GM ever offer a free tow if they know they're getting the rebuild work? Or at this point should I just let this local garage take a whack at it and have faith that if I provide the wave plate part numbers, I'll get what I'm expecting?

Thanks

Brian
 
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#3 ·
Moved...

You told the tow truck driver where you wanted to go and he said NO? Uh, not his choice unless you have some kind of tow coverage that specifies where they'll drop you. And you're not required to have the work done at this local garage or anywhere else. It's your car, not theirs.

If you have any kind of warranty coverage consider having it done at a dealer. Don't get a used trans for the exact reason you state. No need to pay to get the same thing.
 
#8 ·
Next time a tow driver refuses to take you somewhere, refuse to pay him. That sounds like some real shady business to me, like he's getting kick backs for working with that gas station shop.

I think you should either trade it in without repair at the Chevy dealer for something else on the lot or have them repair it and continue driving it.
 
#9 ·
I'm def leaning towards just selling it off. I love the Malibu but it performs poorly in the hilly snowy area I live in now and I don't have space to store snow tires.

I really wish Chevy had an AWD sedan. The new Regal would fit the ticket...turbo and awd...but it's bland interior compared to the gorgeous '08 LTZ makes me look elsewhere.


Funny thing is...I was planning to go with a Taurus SHO and then I find out the car has the same damn transmission that just blew out in my Malibu with a HP rating quite a bit higher than it was rated for.

Rock meet Hard Place.


I'm going to make some calls and see what I can get for it as-is.


Thanks everyone.
 
#10 · (Edited)
THis is intersting because I am on CMF today because my 2008 Malibu did the EXACT SAME thing to me today coming home from work. Trans slipping and not up shifting, not manual shifting right and then complete loss of manual shifting mode and CEL illuminates. I get in my garage and disconnect the battery (I am hoping for a miracle at this point...) in hopes it will reset. I reconnect, the CEL is now out so I go to take it for a test drive and no reverse! I wife had an HHR with tranny issues and now my Malibu.... I was planning on attempting good will reimbursement as I recieved it before for an Olds Intrigue with a seat heater that malfunctioned and burned a hole through the seat back and my shirt. My car has 78xxx miles (very close to the OP) and this is rediculous for a car with this many miles. IF they don't offer me some sort of reimbursement I think I am just gonna give up on Chevy and GM.

OP what did you decide to do and how much did it cost?
 
#11 · (Edited)
@MalibuJay

It is exceedingly frustrating. I want to own American cars but this is my 2nd Malibu to make 80k and die. My last one was a 99 and thanks to the gaskets, it crapped out. So I get that one junked and buy a 08 with low millage and the exact performance/price/look I wanted and it too dies right around 80k. Starts making getting an Acura seem like a good idea.

I was hoping I could get some good-will but it's always a gamble and having a customer service rep that recognizes the situation. The guy I talked to knew very well the problem with these transmissions and it was w/o a doubt the 3,5,R wave plate...the Arcadias (with their heft and center of gravity) are in their shop all the time for the same thing.

You have to feel somewhat bad for the family that struggles to get into modern cars, finds a nice Malibu at the automall down the street for a reasonable price and it lasts them all of 10,000 miles. Sure they could look at a consumer report-like service history and maybe recognize the vehicles are breakdowns waiting to happen but those are even cryptic. I really wish Technical Service Bulletins were open knowledge and widely available. Perhaps then I would have known to get my transmission in front of a GM service tech prior to having my drivetrain warranty run out.

So now some guy in the Bronx is going to rebuild my transmission and I'll be taking it to a Ford dealership and getting my Taurus SHO I've been longing for. Then again my liberal guilt will lead me to be forthright that my transmission was just rebuilt by some joker with no guarantee. We'll see...but selling it for parts was worse than paying for the repair and then trading it in.

(btw, the taurus sho has the same damn transmission lol)
 
#12 ·
(So you don't have to dig all over the net to find it, here's the TSB you should be aware of before you talk to GM....admins, sorry if this break rules...erase if it does.)

TECHNICAL

Bulletin No.: 09-07-30-012

Date: March 08, 2011

Subject: No Reverse, 3rd or 5th, Check Engine Light Illuminated, DTC P0776 (Replace 3-5 Reverse Clutch Plate (Waved))

Models:
2008-2009 Buick Enclave
2008-2009 Chevrolet Equinox, Malibu
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007-2009 GMC Acadia
2007-2009 Pontiac G6
2008-2009 Pontiac Torrent
2007-2009 Saturn AURA, OUTLOOK
2008-2009 Saturn VUE
All Equipped with 6T70/75 6-Speed Automatic Transmission (RPOs MH2, MH4, MH6 or MY9)

Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-012A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).

Condition

Some customers may comment about an SES light and/or no reverse and may also comment on a slip / flare or harsh shifts in drive range 3rd and/or 5th gear. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0776 (Clutch Pressure Control (PC) Solenoid 2 - Stuck Off) set. Any one of the following codes may set independent of each other as a result of this wave plate breaking: P0777, P2723, P0717, P0716, P2715, P2714.

Cause

This condition may be caused by a broken 3,5,R clutch wave plate allowing the apply piston to over-stroke, causing the piston to leak and causing loss of apply. This normally will not occur before approximately 32,000 km (20,000 mi). Debris generated by the condition can affect the operation of the speed sensors and other clutches.

Correction

Important
It is recommended that a new plate be installed any time the transmission is disassembled for any reason.
A new 3-5 reverse clutch plate (WAVED), P/N 24254103 (423), has been released to address this condition. Refer to SI for the appropriate repair instructions.

A broken 35R wave plate can generate varying amounts of debris inside the transmission. In most cases this debris has not passed through the pump fluid filter (201) so has not caused damage to the pump, valve bodies or torque converter. This debris can be cleaned and the transmission successfully repaired.

In summary the following steps should be taken:

1. After removing the transmission from the vehicle, remove the case cover assembly (35). Inspect the case cover for damage. This part is serviced and can be replaced if it is damaged.
2. Remove the 35R / 456 clutch housing assembly (422) and inspect it for a broken 35R wave plate (423).
3. Inspect the case (21) for damage. If the case is damaged, the transmission must be replaced as the case is not serviced. If the case is not damaged, proceed with the tear down and inspection. Any possible damage is typically confined to the case lugs. If the clutch plates can move freely to engage or release the clutch packs, the transmission should not be replaced. If the snap ring grooves are not damaged and will securely retain the snap rings, the transmission should not be replaced. Peening or wear of the edge of the case lugs that engage the clutch plates is normal and acceptable and not cause for transmission replacement.
4. Remove the control valve body cover (1), control solenoid (w/body and TCM) valve assembly (15) and filter plate assembly (16).
5. Inspect the filter plate assembly (16) for the presence of metallic debris on the screens.

- If there is no debris on the screens, the pump fluid filter was effective and there is no debris in the pump or torque converter. Therefore the pump, torque converter and valve body do not need to be replaced. The transmission should be repaired.
- If there is debris on the screens, the pump and torque converter should be inspected further. Refer to SI procedure Transmission Fluid Pump Cleaning and Inspection for the pump. Refer to SI procedure Torque converter Diagnosis for the section Torque Converter Replacement Guide.
- Fine metal particles that you cannot feel (traces of metal flakes/gray color to the fluid) are not reasons to replace the torque converter.
- Metal chips/debris that you can feel or that are found in the converter, or when flushing the cooler and cooler lines, indicate the torque converter should be replaced.

6. The valve body must be disassembled and cleaned, refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 08-07-30-005 for direction.
7. The transmission case halves must be separated, internal components removed and all parts thoroughly cleaned. Be sure to clean the speed sensors, both input (ISS) and output (OSS). These sensors are magnetic and will attach and hold any ferrous material. Failure to clean these sensors may result in DTCs. A new pump fluid filter must be installed.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Soundhertz , thanks for the info. I looked the tsb from your previous post before I called gm and informed them of it. The guy said that my car had the 5yr 100k PT warranty but it expired in October (of course). He said to take it to the dealership and tell them the issue and they may do a complimentary repair. I got it to the dealership and the shop manager (I think) said that if they do fix on good will then I will have to pay a percentage but they won't know until they get a look at it which won't be until Monday or maybe Thursday. Thank God that I work in the schools and have Christmas vacation. I feel you on buying American. I have always had American cars and would prefer to keep it that way. If gm doesn't do right by me, then I will just have to try my cards with Ford, or maybe Chrysler, my wife's liberty hasn't had any major issues yet and it has 90k miles on the odo. I too am contemplating getting another car after the repairs, maybe 12 or 13 focus with a stick shift... less to worry about going wrong with the trans plus better fuel economy then the Malibu which has disappointing fuel economy...
 
#16 ·
Oh believe me, pushing an extra 100 hp on the 6T70 is complete recklessness. I plan to do a heck of a lot research on the performance forums before I decide what to do with the SHO vs something else. I suspect they have the new wave plates in more recent models but it's something I will have to know more about before I commit.


Does GM have any higher HP AWD cars? I seem to remember a caddy with that setup but pretty unsure.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Well, gm offers the buick lacrosse, cadillac cts, xts and ats with awd, all of which offer more hp. I don't know if they use the same trans. But to update on my issue: the dealer called back and offered to pay $1600 dollars of the $3000 total. I called gm back and further expressed my disdain (as nicely as I could) and they came back and said they would pay 1800 leaving me on the hook 1200. So I am still a little disappointed, but I am having them do it because I need my car. Oh, and the probLem was indeed the wave plate and they are going to have to rebuild the trans... so that price isn't even for a new trans for what that's worth

I think my next car may be a Ford.
 
#19 ·
Well, I got my car back today and everything seems to be running fine. I want able to give it a real road test however due to the wonderful Michigan winter weather :(. I did some searching for the wave plate issue and it is mentioned on the Wikipedia page for our transmission and it also indicates that this was an issue for pre 2009 vehicles and that a replacement wave plate was made afterwards for our weak one. Hopefully they used that to replace my old one with...
 
#21 ·
I do find it bland...The red/black seats in my car plus the same on my dash is always a wow factor when new people rode in the malibu. They couldn't believe it was a malibu in fact.

The curves on the dash are nice but without any contrast to the color scheme, it all fades away.
 
#22 ·
So I have my car back. Running fine but it seemed either the computer needed to get to know the new transmission or it had some break-in time. The GM dealership was not willing to help me in any way beyond saying, he knew a guy with a tow truck...and the tow would be $300.

So I let this random garage have their transmission guy follow the post-failure TSB steps and it was a few grand less than GM offered.

That said, I'm very disappointed in GM for not getting ahead of this problem. Having transmissions pop at 80k is just not what I expect from my cars. Just last night my boss's Saturn Outlook (same 6T70 trans) had his 3,5,R blow out despite my warnings to have it checked out after my experience. His dealership (where he's had 100% of his service done) offered him no help so he's calling around the Bronx to find a guy who can do the rebuild.

I do expect help from a dealership when you've been loyal over the years. I didn't go in buying my new car demanding wholesale prices or free this or that...but when a car with a known problem just falls apart at a certain point with no warning whatsoever, give me a free damn tow or something. At least don't sour the brand completely to me...that should be the goal. If you have to eat $300 and in turn I'm willing to buy a $35k car...pretty simple cost/benefits equation.

Recently drove the SHO, an S60, and an A4...unfortunately a rebuilt tranny means little to a dealership at trade-in. The car is undervalued because, well, all their transmissions explode and who is to say I'm not lying.
 
#23 ·
That is odd because gm covered 1800 of the $3000 repair for me. Essentially a rebuild with new wave plate and a few other odds and ins parts. I didn't even purchase my car new, it was cpo. I would suggest that you call gm. I called them before I took the car in and then told the dealership I had called. The stealership won't want to give you anything more than likely, but gm is probably more concerned about keeping customers.
 
#25 ·
Because they follow bluebook, basically. So many of these cars have the problem that they get blacklisted at a certain millage. I could have a brand new block and a brand new transmission and it would still be an 80k mile failure-ridden 6speed to the trade-in specialist.
 
#26 ·
Wow..

The trans went out in my 2010 Malibu last month. Except 1-3 was slipping but once I got into 4th 5th and 6th it would drive fine. 82k miles. GM covered it luckily. I cant believe the issues our cars are having with the trans.
 
#33 · (Edited)
My 2010 Malibu LTZ crapped today. The dealership said it was a R-3, 5 plate (keep in mind I had no idea what any of this means until I read this info here). I was told it would cost $3400 or $4300. I knew something was up. I wondering why my car was fine one day, then the next I have major problems. I am at approximately 81,000 miles. The car was fine with no issues then this morning it wouldn't reverse or drive over 20 miles per hour.

I don't know if I have a warranty on the power train or not. I also don't know why I should have to pay for a part that GM already knows is broken? I am not paying for this. It is completely unfair, and needs a recall. There are complaints about this on carcomplaints.com - and worse I was on the road with my kids when this happened.
 
#28 ·
The dealer said they think a seal or something went bad then the trans grenaded itself.

They rebuilt it under warranty.

I have owned tons of car and most with over 100k .. never had a trans go out on me until that happened so its not my driving.
 
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