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3.6 L Oil in Air Intake

75K views 71 replies 9 participants last post by  DrivenDaily 
#1 ·
2008 Malibu LTZ 3.6L 46,000 miles Running Castrol Syntec 5W-30
I have oil getting into the air intake. In the past 5000 miles since an oil change, I've had to add 3 quarts of oil. The other day driving to Tucson on I-10 after about 70 miles or so of driving 80-90 mph, I was slowed down due to traffic (70mph) kicked it down to pass and a tremendous blue oil cloud came out of the exhaust. (Thought I was in an F16). All seemed to be normal, but same thing has happened again when hitting full throttle at higher speeds. Today, I changed the oil and noticed a huge amount of oil in the air intake tube. Probably 6 or 7 oz. Looks like the only place it could get in is thru the PCV. Has anybody else seen this?
 
#3 ·
These engines a fixed orifice PCV system. This bulletin fits your description well. You're well within powertrain warranty from what I see. Good luck.


#PIP4439A: HFV6 Oil Consumption - (Jun 20, 2011)


Subject: HFV6 Oil Consumption


Models: 2004-2007 Buick Rendezvous,

2005-2009 Buick Lacrosse, Allure

2008-2009 Buick Enclave

2004-2009 Cadillac CTS, STS, SRX

2008-2009 Chevrolet Malibu, Equinox

2007-2009 GMC Acadia

2007-2009 Pontiac G6

2008-2009 Pontiac G8, Torrent

2007-2009 Saturn Aura, Outlook

2008-2009 Saturn Vue

with LP1 2.8L, LY7 3.6L, or LLT 3.6L V6 engine




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This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIP4439.


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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers may comment of excess engine oil consumption with no external leaks.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Verify the oil consumption concern following bulletin 01-06-01-011D.

In addition, check the engine air filter and replace the air filter element as necessary. Care must be taken to ensure that the air filter and air filter box are reassembled correctly so that the filter and air box seal and prevent foreign particles from bypassing the filter. Check for signs of foreign particles bypassing the filter and getting into the engine, such as dust or dirt in the air intake duct or on the throttle body. If dust or dirt is found, look for the source of the leak, such as incorrectly assembled air filter/air filter box, loose clamps or incorrectly assembled joints at the air duct, leaking sensor gaskets, damaged duct parts, etc. and correct as necessary.

If oil consumption is in excess of the guidelines in bulletin 01-06-01-011D, replace the piston rings and valve seals.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Rodents is absolutely correct: the PCV system is a valve-less design on that engine. My bad.

On the 3.6l you should check for a clogged fixed orifice. There is a really good section in the Chilton for the Pontiac G6 2005-09 on the PCV system that will tell you how. The book is well worth having for Malibu owners as so much of the car is the same.

We are still waiting on the new Chilton for Malibu gen 7.
 
#5 ·
I'd be anxious to see the pistons in 96MN12's motor. I would believe you'd see carbon buildup on the rings not allowing them to seal properly. What OCI are you using? I've seen this bulletin for while but never had a car to use it on. If the PCV passage is blocked already, I'd be surprised. Not saying it can't happen but GM must have seen a pattern to say valve seals and piston rings.
 
#7 ·
OCI. Oil Change Interval. I'm not a fan of the oil life monitor sytem. I'm a dealer tech and there are way too many engines coming in with stuck rings. SOMETHING isn't right. Is it the oil, the filter, some other contributing factor, too long between changes? I blame it on too long of a change interval. There are A LOT of people in forums anywhere I look that are relying big time on UOA (used oil analysis) and synthetic oil for long, long change intervals. I'm using Pennzoil Ultra and a NAPA Platinum filter, I'll change my oil twice a year. If I put 5 or 6 K a year on the odometer, that's still way ahead of the OLM system. Could I go longer, yeah sure. Could I run Regular oil, yeah sure. I'm on the way too conservative side, some people are just as far though on the other side and I'm wondering if this could be the case here. That's why I asked what his OCI was. I'm curious how this plays out. I've seen quite a few 3.6's with oil in the intake tube but not in the quantity 96MN12 is reporting. The V8's in the trucks have lots of issues with stuck rings at low mileage. Two in our shop just last week for pistons, both were all carboned up. The 3.6 timing chain issue is another possibly oil change interval related issue. The General has made calibrations available for revising the max oil life from 10K to 5K for timing chain wear issues. This includes Cadillac which specs out Mobil1 for use. I've drawn my conclusions based on what I see, you draw your own conclusions. I could be eating crow some day.
 
#9 ·
Where can I find a copy of the "PIP4439A: HFV6 Oil Consumption - (Jun 20, 2011)" and "bulletin 01-06-01-011D" ? I have found that I need to lead the Chevy dealer to the fix on most problems I've had with this car!! Oil was changed every 4-5 K by the dealer as part of their purchase of the car. After 36K I; changed it myself using Syntech 5W-30. Air filter was replaced about 5K ago. Since synthetic oil is thinner than regular oil could this contribute to the poor design of the PCV allowing oil to get past it?
 
#12 ·
Since synthetic oil is thinner than regular oil
That's NOT true.

It's an old wives tale, probably started by somebody who was confused by a report on the characteristics of synthetic base oil. One of those is that it maintains a molecular bond film at thinner thicknesses than petro oil.
That is NOT the same thing as being "thinner".

The tendency of the first synthetics to leak was caused mostly by insufficient "seal wetting" additives and not by a thinner consistency.
They might find leaks in an old engine today because of a more efficient detergent action, removing "sludge" from holes that it was plugging.
 
#10 ·
PIP 4439A is already in this thread in post #3. At the end of this post I'll put 01-06-01-011D. I don't know where you got the idea the PCV system was a poor design but it's your opinion so it works for me. It's a well known issue with these motors that the timing chains have durability issues, the primary timing chain guides have been wiped out in every one I've ever done. The reduced OLM system max interval is one angle at addressing it but I would believe there's more to it than that. If they go as far as replacing seals and rings, ask to see the pistons when they come out. There's no reason you can't see them. GM has no rule that says the customer can't see the parts we've replaced, just under warranty you can't keep them as they do get called back for analysis from time to time. There may be a separate issue with the rings and valve seals but if there's carbon build up on the rings, I'll lay first blame on too long of an OCI for the driving conditions encountered. The worst synthetic oil could do is expose a leak somewhere, it should not cause any other issues. You'll see the bulletin below has the letter F behind it. That is the latest version of the bulletin you asked for. The letters at the end increment through the alphabet as revisions are made to the bulletin. It is applicable to all models years as far as I know, disregard the '09 and prior at the top. If you have more questions, let me know.
Next post will have the bulletin, too long for the system.
 
#11 ·
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#01-06-01-011F: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines - (Jan 13, 2009)


Subject: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines


Models: 2009 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Gasoline-Powered Light Duty Trucks Under 8500 LB GVW (Including Saturn)

2009 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3

2009 and Prior Saab 9-7X




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This bulletin is being revised to update the warranty information on vehicles and add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011E (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).


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All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).

Important: This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or driven at legal speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.


Important: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks). Oil consumption for vehicles driven under these conditions will be more.

Many factors can affect a customer's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.

Gasket and External Leaks
Inspect the oil pan and engine covers for leakage due to over-tightened, damaged, or out of place gaskets. Inspect oil lines and fittings for signs of leakage.

Improper Reading of the Oil Level Indicator (Dipstick)
Verify that the dipstick tube is fully seated in the block. When checking the oil level, make sure the dipstick is wiped clean before taking an oil level reading and fully depress the dipstick until the shoulder bottoms out on the dipstick tube. The dipstick should be the proper part number for the engine/vehicle that is being checked.

Notice: Operating your vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage. Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Important: Refer to Owner Manual in SI for checking and adding engine oil.

Not Waiting Long Enough After Running Engine to Check Oil Level
Some engines require more time than others for the oil to drain back into the crankcase. To assure a sufficient amount of oil has drained back to the crankcase, and an accurate reading can be obtained, the vehicle should be allowed to sit for at least 15 minutes, after the engine has been shut off, before taking an oil level reading. In order to ensure accurate results, the temperature of the oil should be close to the same temperature as the last time the oil level was checked.

Important: This does not apply to 2006-2009 Corvette Z06 equipped with the 7.0L LS7 and the 2009 Corvette ZR-1 with the 6.2L LS9 engines (dry sump). Follow the instructions in the Owner Manual for checking the oil in this application.

Improper Oil Fill After an Oil Change
Following an oil change, verify that the proper amount and type of oil was put in the engine and that the oil level on the dipstick is not above the full mark or below the add marks. Refer to the Owner Manual or Service Manual for information on recommended oil quantity, viscosity, and quality.

Aggressive Driving, High Speed or High RPM Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds/high RPMs will increase oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected.

A higher rate of oil consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven aggressively. By "aggressive," we mean operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805 km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is necessary. This characteristic does, however, require the owner to check the engine oil level at sufficiently frequent intervals, especially when driving aggressively, to assure the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. As the Owner’s Manual recommends, you should check the oil level every time you get fuel.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the engine, especially at highway speeds, and thus increases the rate of oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation System
Verify that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is operating properly. Blockages, restrictions, or damage to the PCV system can result in increased oil use.

Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are usually driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual) for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper working order.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will all cause an increase in oil consumption.

Measurement of Oil Consumption
Engines require a period of time to BREAK IN so that moving parts are properly seated. Therefore, oil economy should not be tested until the vehicle has accumulated at least 6400 km (4000 mi). An exception would be allowed only if an engine is reported to be using more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 1600 km (1000 mi).

Verify that the engine has no external leaks. Repair as necessary.
Verify that the engine is at normal operating temperature (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual).
Park the vehicle on a level surface.
Wait at least 15 minutes, after the engine is shut off, before checking the oil level to make sure that the oil has had time to drain back into the crankcase.
Verify that the oil level is at, but not above, the full mark on the dipstick, and that the proper viscosity and quality oil are being used as recommended in the Owner's Manual.
Record the vehicle mileage, date, and exact oil level on the form included in this bulletin.
Ask the customer to verify the oil level, each time the vehicle is fueled, following steps 1-6 and return the vehicle to the dealership if the oil level is found at or below the add mark, 0.946 liter (1 qt) low. If the oil level remains above the add mark, the customer should continue to operate the vehicle and verify the engine oil level until 3200 km (2000 mi) has accumulated before returning to the dealership for a final evaluation.
If the final evaluation shows that the engine uses more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), follow the published symptom diagnostics as described in the appropriate Service Manual. If the oil consumption test shows that the engine uses less than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), explain to the customer that their engine meets the guidelines for oil consumption.
Oil Economy Test -- Data Sheet
Dealer Name: _________________________________

Customer Name: _________________________________

Phone: (___)____-_______ Phone: (___)____-_______

VIN: ____________________________

Oil Type Used: ____________________

R.O. #: ___________________

Step
Date
Mileage
Oil Level
Driving Conditions

(City, Highway, Both)
 
#14 · (Edited)
I don't quite agree with the the statement made in the last post.
Your posts here have been invaluable but I have two comments to make:
1) It might head off some mistunderstandings if you would quote just a tiny bit of the post that you are referring to
AND
2) I have not seen any posts in any of the threads that have been "bashing you for being a dealer tech."

P.S. While that web site provides a lot of good information, I think WAY too many people think that the guy running the site is some kind of God and speaks only the absolute truth. Neither of those is true.
He isn't perfect and there are some inaccuracies in what he says.......or how he says it.

To wit: "Oil molecules don't break down". Really ?? They oxidize (burn). I consider that a "break down".
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
MalibuKen said:
Your posts here have been invaluable but I have two comments to make:
1) It might head off some mistunderstandings if you would quote just a tiny bit of the post that you are referring to
AND
2) I have not seen any posts in any of the threads that have been "bashing you for being a dealer tech."
08chevymalibultz said:
That is what I would expect to hear from a GM employer “Tech” or at least from my dealership! There has been several issues with the Malibu and most are common! I am very surprised that you have not worked on or heard of any for front-end problems! The Steering Racks have been a problem on these cars along with all kinds of steering issues!

The transmission also have had some issues, coming fresh right off the lots! Brand New in most cases!

Timing chain seem to be a concern on the 3.6L

This is just a few, we could go on and on! All GM errors!

Many have looked for help and answers while stressing there frustrations but most of the time it is facts, Real people with real issues on their cars! Too many issues on a new/newer car! This would explain why some are a little upset!

Anyways, back to the topic! I don’t want to throw this off coarse!

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Last edited by 08chevymalibultz; Today at 01:46 AM.

Rodents said:
Okay, how's this then? I'm new to this forum stuff and it takes some time to get the knack of some of the goodies. I need the 'Forums for Dummies' book so I don't seem so neanderthal. Okay, that's suggestion 1, so now if you look at the snippet of the post above, I don't know how to quote two different posts in one reply so at the bottom of the snippet you see who said it. Bash may have been a poor choice of words but I try to choose my words carefully most of the time. I don't deserve that kind of stuff from anyone here unless you know me personally. It's not productive in any way, shape or form at any time from or to anyone. There's a lot of that aimed at dealers and GM and because I defend GM and I'm a dealer tech, don't group me in with the ones that don't care. At my dealership I'm number 1 in training by a large margin, doesn't make me special but it does show interest in being the best I can be. My comeback rate is one of the lowest in the shop and I get a disproportionately large amount of work that are other 'techs' comebacks and jobs that other 'techs' turn down because they want the gravy jobs. I quote a source to show where my point of view comes from, be it correct or not. Telling fact from fiction isn't real easy as I, for one don't know where the 'ultimate' source of information is on every subject. If you don't agree with the BITOG page I referenced, where's a page from a source you feel is correct to counter what I said? I'm willing to read your side of the issue, let's pony up some info or otherwise it's just your opinion, which while you're entitled to it, has no backing to convince me why you're right. It's like the discussion of which oil or filter is best. Everyone has their opinion but when some fairly reliable information to back the opinion of the moment is asked for, most of the time there's crickets chirping. I feel I add to the group when I show a point of reference. There's a two way street here, I enjoy reading some information that's counter to a belief I currently hold. It would be far from the first time I learned I was incorrect about a subject. Life is a learning experience. I read BITOG and the Motor Oil Bible to learn something about oils. Do I know it's all the absolute truth? No. But until someone ponies up some opposing point of view, I'll stick with it.

Don’t even try to make me look like the bad guy, you started this with your own self centering comments! Sorry if we did not roll out the red carpet for you and agree with you! This is a Forum and not your work place or office!

I had responded accordingly to how you posted! Sorry, I was not bashing you what so ever! Read your own post, which shows some unkindly remarks! If you are going to say something, at least try to be honest and less critical to some. This would help everyone!

I think it is best / more important to move on and not to throw this out of proportion!
 
#17 ·
I'd like you guys to take a breath and move on.

I've done well with reminders for a long time and I'd hate to break that streak by putting someone on vacation for a few days.

This is a public forum. What you say is not only read by members, but by visitors. And it's in print so it'll be around a very long time. Think about what you post. If it's more like chocolate it won't taste so bad when you have to eat it later!
 
#20 ·
You get an A for trying. :)

When you are editing a quote, please do NOT remove anything inside the[ ] brackets. Those are quoting controls and removing it fouls up the quote display. It starts with [QUOTE......... and ends with /QUOTE]
You can remove any of the other text, just not the stuff in brackets (can't show it exactly as it appears because that would mess things up too).
 
#24 ·
Look at any post where the thread is not locked. At the bottom right of it (not the whole window, just the post) are some buttons. Two of them are "Quote" and "Multi Off".

If you want to quote one post, click "Quote" and you'll get what you see for this post. It tells you who you're quoting and puts it in a special box.

If you want to quote more than one post, go to each post and click "Multi Off" so that it turns to "Multi On". Once you've changed that for each post, click "Quote" and Voila! Multiple quotes!

:D
 
#27 · (Edited)
Update on 3.6L with Oil in Intake/ High Oil Consumption

Running about a quart of oil to <500 miles. Took my 08 Malibu into the dealer 2 days ago to get the GM prescribed oil level check to confirm the level prior to “measuring” the oil consumption rate. (Bring oil level to full line on dipstick, record miles – bring it back when it’s a qt low). The car smoked so bad when the tech started it, they decided to keep it. Got a call later after they contacted GM and was told that GM instructed them to “Perform pistons cleaning procedure” This consists of “… adding/ putting 118-147 ML (4-5 OZ) of upper engine and fuel injector cleaner inside the cylinders” and allowing “the material to soak for 2.5-3.0 hours”. Picked up the cars yesterday, drove it home ( <60 miles), let the car set for about 3 hours, checked the oil level and found it to be more the a ½ quart above the full mark!! Based on the amount of exhaust smoke on the way home – it was likely overfilled by about a quart. Is the dealer playing games with me or is the “technician” at the dealer just that incompetent!!! (By overfilling the oil are they trying to make the engine self destruct. Every owners manual and service manual I’ve ever seen cautions against overfilling the oil as it can cause the oil to foam and no longer effectively lubricate the engine). Even the service ticket indicated that 6 quarts of oil was used (the engine calls for 5 quarts with a filter change). Overfilling by a quart then bringing it back when it’s a quart low would actually at best produce an incorrect rate of oil consumption. (I can understand that the dealer is having to follow the GM instructions trying a last ditch effort to avoid an engine overhaul). After the above “decarbonizing” procedure the car still smokes badly on WOT and excessively on engine startup. I’ve been driving for over 40 years and for the most part self- maintaining every car I’ve ever owned. Always changing oil religiously to hopefully maximize the life of the vehicle. (I have an S-10 Blazer with over 220,000 mile that doesn’t use a drop of oil between 3Kmile changes). The biggest question is at 47 K miles how long will a dealer rebuilt last?
 

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#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: Update on 3.6L with Oil in Intake/ High Oil Consumption

Picked up the cars yesterday, drove it home ( <60 miles),
I think you should have checked the oil before you left the dealer, under the circumstances.

Failing that, you should have driven it a couple of miles until you noticed smoke and then taken it right back.

IF YOU ARE UNDER WARRANTY, call the GM help line because it appears the dealers service department is incompetent. I suspect there is no overt purpose or else they wouldn't have admitted their mistake on the ticket.
GM's recommendation notwithstanding, it never should have left their shop without a compression test and/or a thorough test drive.

A properly rebuilt engine should last just as long as a new one. In your case, hopefully longer.
 
#29 ·
Re: Update on 3.6L with Oil in Intake/ High Oil Consumption

The 3.6 takes 5.5 quarts on an oil and filter change. You'll see 6 quarts charged out as, at least where I work, it's a minimum of a quart so there's 'no way' to charge out a half quart. You'd really think they'd have done it right.
 
#30 ·
Last Friday, I took my Malibu-bu back to the dealer last Friday. After about 240 miles it burned the ½ quart that was overfilled and an additional ½ a quart. Apparently the dealer under GMs definition, decided that this “qualified” as high oil consumption. I spoke to the Chevrolet rep that apparently works out of the dealer. He stated that the dealer’s request would have to go thru the power-train engine / whatever department at GM for a decision on what to do.

Seems like corporate profit is the only thing that matters! This will destroy GM in the long run!

I am still unconvinced that an engine that is rebuilt by a yet unknown dealer technician (has he/she done this before?) will perform as long, mileage wise, as the factory engine.

I have opened a case with the GM help line last week, but it doesn’t seem like they carry much weight (useless effort)!! After the conversation I had with them today – it was apparent that it was a total waste of my time to even contact them.

Yesterday I received a call from the dealer service writer informing me that they had requested (apparently GM prescribed) repair parts from GM and had received a “10-4” to order the following parts.

Piston rings (set) 6
All Valve seals
Connecting rod bearings
GMS
LOF
EOS
DEX-Cool
Oil filter adapter gasket
…… etc..

IMHO This is not a sure fix, but an attempt at a fix!!!

I have yet to get a straight answer out of either the dealer, the GM Help line or the Chevrolet Manager-Aftersales as to whether they actually found the cause when they tore apart the engine or are they just throwing parts at it as prescribed by the GM tech line!

How qualified is the dealer in successfully accomplishing this type of “repair” ? Have they ever done this before? I have rebuilt a couple of engines in my time. It’s not rocket science, but needs to be done with expertise and GREAT attention on detail – not just hurry up, (because GM only approves 5(?) hours to do this). Seems like with all of the labor involved that it would be less expensive for GM to just replace the engine.

At 47,000 miles, what happens next? If successful (at this point) Will the GM prescribed engine rebuilt last as long as the last several American made cars I’ve owned WITHOUT A PROBLEM? (i.e.; 93 Blazer 223K; 96 Thunderbird 212K; 93 Thunderbird 240Kmiles; 1984 Olds Cutlass 144Kmiles; 1980 Firebird 179Kmiles; 1975 Dodge van 175Kmiles; 1969 Dodge Charger 193Kmiles; 1966 Dodge Monaco 187Kmiles; etc). All of these cars still ran great- no smokers or oil consumption when they were traded or sold! WOW NO TOYATAS!!!!

I only expected same or better performance from a brand new 2008 Chevrolet Malibu LTZ!

Got a problem? I realize that this MAY not be typical… BUT this is a problem that does affect this small GM customer’s perception of GM quality that needs to be resolved!

Apparently, this is how the post-bailout GM operates. Doesn’t matter about the individual customer satisfaction. Reminds me of calling a customer service line that was farmed out to foreign call center – providing only “canned” answers.

Welcome to “The NEW GM!”

Got some great videos of “ol’ Smokey”!! Hmmmm…. Maybe next escalation will be the local Phoenix TV stations…

Maybe Obama can fix this too!
 
#31 ·
I am still unconvinced that an engine that is rebuilt by a yet unknown dealer technician (has he/she done this before?) will perform as long, mileage wise, as the factory engine.
WOW !!! :rolleyes:

Do you feel better now that you have vented ?? Somehow I doubt it.

Have YOU ever done an engine re-build ?? What qualifies you to be so cynical about what "they" are telling you ??

More than 40 years experinece with engines of all types leads me to believe that they are doing exactly the right thing. Absent any visible leaks, if the loss of oil is INTERNAL, there is no reason to NOT replace everything once the engine is apart. The extra parts cost is minimal.

Shops usually don't assign jobs like that to a rookie. Some even farm them out if they know they don't have anybody who can handle it.

I would do the mains too; didn't see that listed.

I hope your repair comes out good......and I hope that you feel better soon.
 
#32 ·
WOW!!! is right!!! I do feel better today Ken. I actually heard back today from my service writer at the dealer that they actually FOUND something! BTW - I'm not being cynical about what they are telling me - I'm just not feeling very good about what they were NOT telling me! COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY! Maybe I shouldn't post anything on here anymore - thought this site was to discuss malibu issues. I apologize to you if I offended you by my true feeling about my "personal" issue on MY problem. BYE
 
#38 ·
All pistons were in similar condition. Any thoughts on the cause of this?
That is amazing to say the least! Great pictures the second time, thanks for sharing! As for the cause, I'd be curious to know what octane fuel you are running. Though 87 is the minimum recommended, if the oil consumption was adequate, maybe the oil reduced the anti knock qualities enough to break the lands. I'll post a link , great info on many kinds of piston damage. It takes some time to download but very informative. You should go to pages 36 and 37, those are the page numbers on the actual page. Page 36 at the top reads 3.4.4 Ring land fractures.
http://www.boosttown.com/engine/piston_damage.pdf
From what I saw on that page, I would say this was the effect but not the cause of your initial oil consumption. I don't get to do a lot of lower engine mechanical so I had to look around some. Always a good day when you learn something like that! Wow! Keep us posted on how you make out. I'm glad that it seems you have a knowledgeable tech working on the vehicle. I really expected to see carboned up rings, not broken lands. Excellent learning experience! I know it sucks that it's your car but for me those last two pictures are worth a few thousand words. Like going to school but right at home.
 
#36 ·
Wow, man, a fractured and missing groove! When it failed and parts were just floating around, did it damage the cylinder walls? What all parts did they replace?
 
#37 ·
Just got back from the Chevy dealer. I spoke to the Technician doing the rebuilt. He said that all of the broken fragment were still between the ring when he pulled it apart. Here are a couple more shots of the pistons. I looked at all of them some wern't as bad as these pics, but all were doing the same thing. Pistons, rings, rod bearings, valve seals & all gaskets were replaced (no main bearings). Guess we'll see what happens. (Ken you were right the Tech is no novice. He had good answers to all of my questions).
 

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#40 ·
The damaged area was limited to one section of the piston not all the way around them and always on the same side i.e., parallel to the wrist pin. Keep in mind that this engine was decarbonized <300mile before what you see in the pictures. I have used regular gas (87 Octane) with an occasional tank of premium. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I noticed fuel mileage gradually started dropping when the higher daily temps started around end of May which coincidentally is when the Phoenix area shifts into the summer oxygenated fuel (May 1 - Oct). This was also about the time when oil consumption began - gradually at first - maybe a quart in 1500-2000 miles - then exponentially got worse in recent months. Not all of the time but a few times, I heard some pinging during near WOT, like entering an expressway ramp, but again, kinda blamed it on the hot weather. (Shouldn't the knock sensors prevent pinging from ever happening?)
 

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#41 ·
(Shouldn't the knock sensors prevent pinging from ever happening?)
No, they respond to pings. Well, to sudden shock events like pings ... they're stupid, and can be fooled by other audio inputs.

What they CAN do is tell the ECM to enrich the air/fuel mixture and retard the timing, and then after a while (which can be a few milliseconds!), the ECM can lean and advance according to its programming.

But no, they respond to pings in real time.

It's like ABS - doesn't keep the tires from ever locking, but rapidly blocks brake fluid pressure AFTER the tire locks to unlock it, then reapplies the fluid (hopefully without it relocking!), lather, rinse, repeat.

(Side note: If your car goes into ABS, improving the pads / rotors / calipers / master cylinder / et al won't do jack squat to helping you stop, you've already exceeded the tractive ability of the tire and the roadbed. Improve those NEXT. Ideally you should get to just where on dry road the car barely thrums or doesn't go ABS on you with a solid on panic stop, before you spend money on better-than-OEM brakes.)

RwP
 
#46 ·
The decarbonizing was GMs 1st attempt for a repair (see my previous post on 8/27). It wasn't my decision. I took the car in to the dealer for the oil consumption determination, where the oil is filled to the full mark. It smoked so bad when they started it up, they kept it, called the gm tech line for instructions. GM instructed the dealer to do the decarb.
 
#47 ·
GM instructed the dealer to do the decarb.
Some of their "proceedures" are just moronic.

The damage to the pistons looks kind of like what I would expect if you rev'ed the engine to red-line and then tried to pour a couple of gallons of water (or oil) in through the air intake.......rapidly.

I would think that there HAD to be significant damage to the cylinder walls.....given the amount of time that it was driven like that.
Is it safe to assume that they bored the cylinders and put in oversized pistons......or at least oversized rings ???
 
#49 ·
Wow - cant believe the ring lands broke on those pistons.....makes me second guess how long I am going to keep mine.

The cylider walls are definitely going to scored up pretty good with that damage....I am thinking they should be putting a whole new engine in your car...you need to question them on that....ask them what the walls look like....I would hate for them the hit the cylinders with a light hone and put all stock size piston & rings in my car with that kind of action going on in there.

Depending on what they tell you - ask them to let you look at the cylinders if you have too....but if the tech that is working on your car is good like you stated....he will know better...but I guess its really up to GM on what they will allow him to do for you.....Keep us up to date on your progress...as others like me with the 3.6 are concerned.
 
#51 ·
If a compression test was performed either before or after the decarb, it was not listed on the service ticket. With 53K still left on the drivetrain warranty I'll have to see how it goes. One thing for sure is that I'll be keeping an eye on the oil level and checking it before I leave the dealer! After being thru all of this, any thought on using synthetic oil after the rebuild?
 
#52 ·
After being thru all of this, any thought on using synthetic oil after the rebuild?
Should be fine......partly because most of the oil labeled as "synthetic" really isn't any more.

I think I would wait until the second change, partly because my first one would be a relatively short interval, like 500-1000 miles, and partly because of the "urban legand" that parts don't break in properly with synthetic.
 
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