Since this is my second GM vehicle with this feature, and since no GM forum is complete without this discussion, let's have some input...

Do you change your oil according to the OLM, or do you do it at some specified mileage?

I ALWAYS change at 3,000 miles. I do keep an eye on the OLM just to see how it is responding to my driving habits/conditions. In my old pick up, I did notice that it would react to things such as pulling loads, or driving through the mountains.

I ALWAYS change at 3,000 miles. I do keep an eye on the OLM just to see how it is responding to my driving habits/conditions. In my old pick up, I did notice that it would react to things such as pulling loads, or driving through the mountains.
My oil changes are done at 3,000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first, and I do all my own maintenance ;)

http://autos.yahoo.com/owning/maintain/repairqa/qa.html?question=ques119&category=Air+Filters+%26+Oil&topics=qaairfil%01qalubric%01qaengoil ;)

Wow. I have to say I'm really supprised at the 3000 mile answers. The urban myth that won't die. Does anybody actually run out the full 100% on their OLM? I do, anywhere from 95-100%

100%

If GM engineering is confident enough to develop and apply the technology, while providing 100K mile warranty on the powertrain, I'm confident enough to trust it.

My Duramax has 80K on it...oil changes come when the OLM reads 85-90%...generally 7-8K miles, but as long as 10K!

My Equinoix (a city only car) usually got to 5K miles before the OLM read 90%.

My STSs, GTP, and Sierras would usually hit 6K miles.

Wow. I have to say I'm really supprised at the 3000 mile answers. The urban myth that won't die. Does anybody actually run out the full 100% on their OLM? I do, anywhere from 95-100%
I do on my Honda Ridgeline, which has a similar Maintenance Minder System. I've gotten as little as 4500 miles to high of 5600 miles between oil changes. I also use Mobil1.

I use Dino oil so I change at 3,000 miles or 4 to 5 months.

I have always changed mine at 3000 no matter what the DIC tells me.

What does the oil life monitor use for data points? RPM's and Oil Temp?

On my '06 GMC Sierra I have the oil monitor also and it never seems to be consistant on the mileage. At 3,000 miles on the truck it shows somwhere between 45-65% oil life left. It is never consistant. I wonder if it has something to do with the speed traveled and rpm's etc. I always just change it at 3,000 miles. On the Malibu I am going to change it every 3,000 just like the truck.

I've read that most of the Oil Life Monitors determine the percentage in relation to the oil's viscosity. This will change overtime depending on the type of driving, therefore the range between oil changes depends on your driving style.

I have always changed mine at 3000 no matter what the DIC tells me.

This is what I plan to do as well.

What does the oil life monitor use for data points? RPM's and Oil Temp?
You are correct, sir.

From bbobynski on www.bobistheoilguy.com

One thing I can touch on and clear up.....the GM oil life monitor operation and my statement that ZDP (or ZDDP as you tend to call it here...most of the API literature just sticks to ZDP so I tend to use that) depletion is the basis for oil deterioration.

My spelling is poor but ZDP stands for zinc dialkyldithiophosphate which , as it sounds, is an anti-wear compound comprised of zinc and phosphorus.

ZDP is dispersed in the oil so as to be at a potential wear site if a surface asperity happens to break thru the oil film thickness causing the dreaded metal-to-metal contact. A molecule of ZDP must be present at that moment to prevent microwelding at the contact site which will cause material transfer, scuffing, scoring, wear and catostrophic failure. The concentration of ZDP in the oil will determine if there is ZDP present to work it's magic. The greater the concentration...the more likely a molecule of ZDP will be there...and vice versa.

By nature, ZDP is sacrifical. As ZDP is "used up" at a wear site to prevent micorwelding the concentration of ZDP decreases.... So...if you measure the ZDP concentration in engine oil in a running engine it will decrease at linear rate based on engine revolutions. Any given engine has a certain number of high potential wear areas where metal-to-metal contact could occur due to reduced film thickness and/or surface asperities....areas such as rubbing element cam followers, distributor gears, rocker arm pivots, push rod tips, etc...... The more of these areas the more ZDP depletion. The more often these features come in contact the greater the ZDP depletion. That is why, generally speaking, ZDP concentration in the oil, for any given engine, will decrease at a fairly linear rate when plotted versus cummulative engine revolutions. The more times it turns the more contact the more chance for wear the greater the depletion. This is as much of a fact as I could quote ever and is really not speculation or anything. It is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in many studies. That is why it is ONE of the basis for determining oil life remaining and why it is THE basic premis of the GM oil life algorithm. It is only ONE of the things that determines oil life...but it is the one thing that can be tied to engine operation in a linear fashion and estimated very accurately by accumulating engine revolutions via a counter.

The GM engine oil life monitor counts engine revolutions and accumulates the number for the basis of the oil life calculation. It then adds deterioration factors for operating temperature, start up temperature, soak times, ambient, coolant temperature, etc... There are a LOT of factors that "adjust" or affect the slope of the deterioration but the fundamental deterioration is traced back to the ZDP depletion that is inescapable with engine revolutions. The specific rate of ZDP depletion is readily measurable for any given engine so that is the fundamental item that is first calibrated for the oil life algorithm to tailor it specifically to that engine.

You would obviously like to get the oil out of the engine before the ZDP concentration gets so low that it is ineffective at being at the right place at the right time and preventing engine wear so that becomes the long term limit on oil life for that application.

The other things that determine oil life such a acid build up, oxidation, petane insuluables such as silicon from dust/dirt, carbon or soot build up from the EGR in blowby, water contamination, fuel contamination, etc.... are all modeled by the multipliers or deterioration factors that "adjust" the immediate slope of the line defined by the engine revolution counter as those items can be modeled in other ways and accounted for in the immediate slope of the ZDP depletion line.

The algorithm was developed over the course of many years by several lubrication experts at GM Fuels and Lubes, spearheaded by Doctor Shirley Schwartz who holds the patents (with GM) for the algorithm and the oil life montitor. I had the luck of working directly with Dr. Schwartz when the idea of the oil life monitor first progressed from the theoretical/lab stage to real world testing/development/validation. There were fleets of cars operated under all conditions that deteriorate the oil life for any and every reason and , thru oil sampling and detailed analysis of the oil condition, the algorithm was developed, fine tuned and validated to be the most accurate way invented yet to recommend an oil change interval by. As just one example, I have seen cars driven side-by-side on trips, one towing a trailer and one not, for instance, to prove the effectiveness of the oil life monitor in deteriorating the oil at a faster rate just because of the higher load, higher average RPM, higher temps, etc...and it works flawlessly.

The oil life monitor is so effective because: it is customized for that specific vehicle/engine, it takes everything into account that deteriorates the oil, it is ALWAYS working so as to take into account THAT INDIVIDUALS driving schedule, and it tailors the oil change to that schedule and predicts, on an ongoing basis, the oil life remaining so that that specific individual can plan an oil change accordingly. No other system can do this that effectively.

One thing is that I know personally from years of testing and thousands of oil analysis that the oil life algorithm works. There is simply no argument to the contrary. If you don't believe me, fine, but, trust me, it works. It is accurate because it has been calibrated for each specific engine it is installed on and there is considerable testing and validation of the oil life monitor on that specific application. NOt something that oil companies or Amsoil do. They generalize....the oil life monitor is very specific for that application.

Oil condition sensors in some BMW and Mercedes products are useful, also. They have their limitations, though, as they can be blind to some contaminates and can, themselves, be contaminated by certain markers or constituents of certain engine oils. Oil condition sensors can only react to the specific oil at that moment and they add complexity, cost and another potential item to fail. One other beauty of the GM oil life monitor is that it is all software and does not add any mechanical complexity, mass, wiring or potential failure mechanism.

There is considerable safety factor in the GM oil life monitor. Typically, I would say, there is a 2:1 safety factor in the slope of the ZDP depletion curve....in other words, zero percent oil life per the ZDP depletion is not zero ZDP but twice the concentration of ZDP considered critical for THAT engine to operate under all conditions reliably with no wear. This is always a subject of discussion as to just how low do you want the ZDP to get before the oil is "worn out" if this is the deciding factor for oil life. We would tend to be on the conservative side. If the oil life is counting down on a slope that would recommend a 10K change interval then there is probably 20K oil life before the ZDP is catostrophically depleted....not that you would want to go there...but reason why many people are successful in running those change intervals.

Please...NOT ALL ENGINES ARE THE SAME. The example above is an excellent practical justification of why you would want to add EOS and change the 15W40 Delvac in the muscle car at 3000 miles max and yet can run the Northstar to 12500 easily on conventional oil. You must treat each engine and situation differently and what applies to one does not retroactively apply to others. This is where Amsoil falls short in my book by proposing long change intervals in most everything if you use their oil. It just doesn't work that way. You can run the Amsoil to 12500 with no concerns whatsoever in the late model Northstar because even the oil life monitor tells you that for conventional oil off the shelf. Would I do that to the 502 in my 66 Chevelle...NO WAY. Amsoil says I can though. Wrong.


There are entire SAE papers written on the GM oil life monitor and one could write a book on it so it is hard to touch on all aspects of it in a single post. Hopefully we hit the high spots. Realize that a GREAT deal of time, work and energy went into developing the oil life monitor and it has received acclaim from engineering organizations, petroleum organizations, environmental groups all across the board. It is not some widget invented in a week and tacked onto the car.

The oil life monitor is not under the control of a summer intern at GM Powertrain per an earlier post....LOL Not that a summer intern wasn't compiling calibrations or doing a project on it but is under control of the lube group with a variety of engineers directly responsible that have immediate responsibility for the different engine families and engine groups. The idea that a summer intern was responsible for or handling the oil life monitor is ludicrous.....LOL LOL LOL

What does the oil life monitor use for data points? RPM's and Oil Temp?


...and so much more. The algorithm starts with a raw count of engine RPMs, then factors any about one bazillion other factors including oil temps, coolant temps, ambient air temps, the amount of time your vehicle idles at start up before reaching speed, average speed, etc. If you want a definitive explanation, email hir72802@hotmail.com, or visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/. He is very knowledgeable on the intricacies of the GM oil life monitoring system.

edit: Sorry, I see Washboy beat me to it.

From bbobynski on www.bobistheoilguy.com


Excellent information, Washboy. I have every confidence in the OLM and now have the information to justify that position.

Washboy may have changed my mind on the OLM.
I just hope there is not a test on that post next week :)

That post is some great reading. There is tons of information across the internet regarding GM's Oil Life Monitor.

In simplest form, it monitors engine cycles (RPMs) and counts down. Then the slope of the countdown is adjusted by algorithms that assign positve or negative point values. Each engine gets a maximum mileage between changes (I think the Ecotecs are set at 10000) and then your mileage is added/subtracted depending on YOUR SPECIFIC DRIVING CONDITIONS/METHODS. That's why in the winter with lots of cold starts and not always getting up to temp, etc, you may only go 3000 miles between changes. But in the summer with warm temps and lots of highway miles, you may see 8000-9000 between changes.

I read another really interesting post regarding synthetic vs dinos from a GM Lube Technician. He basically said the OLM was calculated on dino oils for cars that spec that from the factory. If the car was specd with synthetic (Corvette) then the OLM was adjusted for that. Also, he said the drain intervals for both are the exact same. Synthetic doesn't last any longer (in their eyes) than dino does regardless of what Amsoil says. In theory, synthetic doesn't break down as quick as dino in lab tests, but oil is contaminated from normal combustion at the same rate regardless of it's basestock. The only reason the Corvette uses synthetic is they were able to delete the oil cooler (expensive and heavy). Otherwise, they'd spec dino oil in it too.

Here it is...

ere is another take from another website, probably the same fellow(vv.corvair.org/pipermail/virtualvairs/2005-July/028037.html)

The following is the response of a GM engine development engineer to a
motorcycle forum on extended mileage oil changes. The link to the forum
was posted on VV months ago. I found it so interesting I saved a copy.
Read with an open mind and form your own opinion about your favorite oil
and oil change habits. Only the GM engineer's responses to questions,
converted to plain text format, are included. The GM engineers
experience and credentials are in the first few sentences of the last
paragraph. It's taken special handling to get this long message posted,
thanks to vv-help. I've got the entire original in pdf format for those
interested.

John Dozsa


Keep in mind that there are a lot of reasons to change the oil. Oil
oxidizes with time and temperature, oil gets contaminated with
combustion byproducts, oil gets contaminted with soot from blowby, oil
gets contaminated with fuel and water...particularily during cold
starts, acids form in the oil, oil gets contaminted with dust/dirt/
debris, the antiwear additive in the oil (the "zinc" or ZDP) gets
depleted with engine revolutions, the antioxidants/
anti-acids/detergents/dispesant additive deplete with time and engine
revolutions.

Synthetic oil addresses the oxidation as it will handle higher
temperatures but that is about the only advantage of synthetic...so...in
short, using synthetic does NOTHING to allow a longer drain interval.
Synthetic has the same amounts of ZDP, same problem with fuel and water
contamination, same problems with other contaminates including soot,
same problem with acid buildup, etc.... All reasons why synthetic oil
does NOT allow longer drain intervals. The water from combustion
byproducts/blowby combines with the sulfur in the fuel in blowby to form
sulfuric acid over time so oil acidity slowly increases with time and
miles and synthetic oil does nothing different to prevent this. You have
to change the oil before the anti-acids in the oil additive package are
overwhelmed. If oxidation were the only reason to change the oil then
synthetics would have an advantage in terms of life or extending the
drain intervals. Unfortunately, oxidation due to temperature is RARELY
the determining factor for the drain interval so any advantage
synthetics might have in this area are moot. I would recommend sticking
to the recommended drain intervals even if you use synthetic oil.

It is interesting that the new Mobil 1 "extended service" oils added
more ZDP to the oil to prevent depletion of the anti-wear additive to
market the extended drain intervals to 15,000. BUT....read the bottle.
It specifically states that if your engine is under warranty, change the
oil at the specified intervals...hmmm....so much for their "guaranteed
15,000 mile interval. Another gem on the bottle is the statement that
"if your engine has an oil life monitor follow the oil life monitor and
do not use the extended drain interval." The bottle also says that the
extended service is void if the engine operates in heavy
duty/commercial/livery service, is idled a lot or is operated in a dusty
environment. That pretty much eliminates a LOT of other applications and
matches the manufacturer's recommendations for sooner oil changes under
those conditions. So..after reading the can, exactly what good is the
"extended service" Mobil 1. In addition, if youlook carefully, the
extended service Mobil 1 does not have the API SG3/SG4 rating as it
exceeds the antiwear (zinc) concentration for the API SG3/SG4 ratings.
This is not necessarily bad for motorcycles but makes the oil a
NON-recommended oil for most modern passenger car applications. I am not
making this up....read the fine print on the bottle yourself. I would
change the oil at the normal intervals even if you do use a synthetic
oil.

It isn't MY conclusion...it is a fact. Mobil even says the same thing.
They have not stated anything about extended drain intervals with their
products until the recent addition of the "extended service -15000"
synthetic oil. And they had to modify their existing Mobil 1 product to
make that claim (modified to the extent that it doesn't conform to the
SG3/SG4 specs anymore) and they STILL put tons of qualifiers on the
15000 claim with the disclaimer about changing it according to the
manufacturer's oil life monitor, and changing it sooner if under
warranty or operating in towing/commercial service or dusty
environments. I am not making that up....read the bottle for yourself.
With all the other reasons for changing the oil there is no way that
synthetic can claim a longer drain interval. I worked extensively with
the GM Research oil chemists that developed the GM Oil Life Monitor and
know for a fact that it doesn't change anything in the model for cars
with synthetic oil from the factory. I agree that it is possible, under
certain conditions, to run the oil past 15,000 or even 20,000 miles in
passenger cars with the oil not being "used up" or "worn
out"...but...that is assuming no safety factor at all in the oil life
and it is under the best of conditions. And...the testing that proved
this was NOT synthetic. If the oil is being used under conditions that
allow an extremely long change interval then conventional oil will last
just as long as synthetic under those conditions. The single advantage
of synthetic is it's ability to operate at temps above 305 F without
oxidizing rapidly. Since there are few applications where the oil gets
that hot the advantage is moot and contributes zero to extended drain
capability. Even my CBX with a partial fairing blocking part of the
engine never gets the oil to 300 even running on the freeway at 80 in
summer weather...I've checked. The fact is that the "extended service"
claim for the Mobil 1 15000 oil is a bit hollow...especially when they
add several $$$ per quart for the 15000 oil. A modern Cadillac Northstar
or LS1 engine will go 12500 miles on the oil life monitor if used in
highway driving, best case conditions...and that is validated with
conventional, non-synthetic oil !!! So for the extra $$$ for synthetic
and extra $$$ for 15000 you only get 2500 extra miles...and Mobil tells
you on the bottle NOT to ge 15000 if your car has an oil life monitor.
If you saw data showing the oil was fine with extended drain intervals
then conventional oil would have done the same thing on that particular
test. Forget the idea that synthetic allows longer drain intervals. It
is hype by some of the synthetic marketers (primarily Amsoil) to
sell/justify their expensive (highly profitable) product. They test
under one set of best case conditions and then imply that that is the
case for all conditions.

Continued...

The other thing to keep in mind with oil drain intervals is that
different engines have distinctly different oil lifes. The life of the
oil in the engine is VERY dependent on the engine design, features in
the engine and what is expected of the oil. As an example from the
engines that I work on, the 93-99 Northstar engine would have a maximum
oil life of 7500 miles. This was bumped up to 12,500 miles with the
redesign of the engine in 2000 model year. This is the maximum oil life
under optimum operating conditions, not the recommended change interval
all the time. The difference in the engines is that the 2000 engine has
rolling element cam followers instead of direct acting lifters. The
rubbing element or direct acting lifters take the antiwear ZDP out of
the oil much faster and the direct acting tappets are far more dependent
on oil quality and the presence of the ZDP to live. Oil that would be
depleted of ZDP in the earlier engines in 7500 miles is still
serviceable at 12,500 miles in the newer engines. Older passenger car
engines had rubbing element lifters, rubbing element rocker arms,
pushrod tips, distributor gears that drove the oil pump, spur gear oil
pumps, etc... Those engines needed a lot of antiwear protection and used
it up quickly. 3000 mile oil changes on those engines with the oils of
the day were probably stretching it under some conditions. Modern
engines have gerotor oil pumps, no distributor gears, rolling element
everything in the valve gear....they do not chew up the oil nor need
high levels of anti-wear additives. Plus, the improved PCV systems keep
the oil cleaner. Any oil claims of extended drain intervals that do not
make the distinction of what type of service or what type of engine
should be highly suspect and considered primarily a marketing ploy.
Period. Motorcycle engines, like the FJR, still have rubbing element,
direct acting tappets that need lots of ZDP and take the ZDP out of the
oil fairly quickly. Synthetic has no advantage nor makes any difference
in this respect. In addition, the oil lubricates the gear box where the
gear mesh shears down the oil viscosity and takes even more ZDP out of
the oil. Wet clutch action contaminates the oil also and is another
source of ZDP depletion. Since the basic model for oil life involves the
linear depletion of ZDP in the oil due to metal-to-metal contact at
lifter interfaces, gear interfaces, etc. I would guess that a motorcycle
engine degrades oil life much more rapidly than a car engine...probably
twice as fast. Also, motorcycle engines turn twice the RPM of car
engines for any given maneuver so that multiplies the oil degradation by
2. The oil life algorithms (that have proven to accurately model engine
oil life beyond a shadow of a doubt) actually count engine revolutions
to establish the basic oil decay rate...so...the more revolutions the
greater the degradation. This linear decay rate is multiplied by various
factors that account for the oil operating temperature, ambient
conditions, soak times, run times, engine load and many others. Short
trips in cold weather will add considerable deterioration because of the
effects of contamination by gas and water. Since cold weather operation
is not much of a factor with bikes and they do tend to get thoroughly
warmed up each ride (most people don't "housewife" a bike on short trips
and many stops) I would guess that the main factor in oil life with
bikes is the depeletion of the antiwear additives....which would be the
same with synthetics or conventional oil. Understand, also, that any
modern oil that meets the SL or SM API performance requirements have
quite a bit of synthetic content in them. Any multivis oil that meets SM
performance specs must have a synthetic polymer Viscosity Improver
package or it wouldn't pass. So, any modern oil is a synthetic "blend"
as some companies like to market and charge extra for....LOL.
Amsoil.....?.....That is an oil marketing company that utilizes a
pyramid scheme to sell their product thru a system of distributors and
dealers and such. They know absolutely nothing more about oil than Mobil
or Texaco or the other major oil manufacturers. Their bogus claims are
meant to sell their products at high prices to benefit their pyramid
marketing scheme. How could they justify the high price they charge for
their product otherwise. Their products probably perform well to some
extent but they have no outstanding attributes that others do not have
for half the cost. Their claims of long change intervals are completely
nonsense. They base them on the lower oxidation rates of their synthetic
products at high operating temps. As mentioned, that is rarely, if ever,
the defining factor in oil changes and the testing that determines the
oxidation rates is run at temps above what most engines will ever
operate at. They take something completely out of context and pretend
that it is a big advantage. It isn't. If you look at all the tests that
oils must pass to meet the API standards for performance, Amsoil only
quotes selected results in areas of testing that do not replicate normal
engine operation. If you really understand ALL the things that govern
oil life Amsoil's claims evaporate. They make themselves sound very
technical and quote lots of "data" but it is a smokescreen to cover
their marketing scheme that benefits their distributors and dealers.....

First, though, let me be clear. Synthetics, such as Mibil 1, are
excellent products. They can survive at temperatures well above the
oxidation limits of conventional oil of 305 F. If an engine operates at
those oil temperatures then synthetic is applicable. Synthetic offers
good low temperature viscosity and pour points... low meaning below -40.
Down to the -30/-40 range conventional oils are fine. If you are
searching for oil on the northslope and cold start regularily at -40
then consider synthetic. Other than that, synthetic oil's usefulness is
questionable in passenger cars. Racing teams use synthetic oil for
several reasons. First and foremost is marketing. If it is "good for
racing" then it must be great stuff, right??? Fooled you , didn't
it..!!! LOL LOL The racing teams get paid lots of sponsorship $$$$ to
run the oils and put the stickers on the cars. That is why they use it.

does anyone else use the OLM to change their oil? or do you stick with the 3000 miles interval?
i have done this for the past two malibus and usually get 9000 miles before an oil change is indicated...:eek:i do mostly city driving with some hwy miles.

I go by the OLM. None of my vehicles with it have had problems either, and there are lots of posts around the internet on the same topic where replies have gone into some serious detail of how it works, as well as the history of its development. So long as you follow the manual for changing your oil (OLM or once a year, whichever comes first), you should be good to go.

OLM or anytime it gets close to the OLM and I have free time. But I use full syntheitc oil.

Nope. Still swear by 3,000 miles.

To bring more information together in one location, I've merged two Threads to form this one.

Nope. Still swear by 3,000 miles.
3.000 for me also ;) all these opinions are just that :rolleyes: oil gets DIRTY and the longer you keep your oil in the more you increase the wear and tear on the engine, oil filters can only do so much, i'll stick to my old habits and change my oil regularly, and that is my opinion!!! :D

I ve always used Mobile One, and now change at the OLM s request, but you guys really posted some good information. Do you think synthtic produces more MPG s? If yes, would that mean less friction and less wear too? Just a note: notice how a lot of manufactures have increased the oil capasity so it will stay cooler and cleaner longer? thanks.

I ve always used Mobile One, and now change at the OLM s request, but you guys really posted some good information. Do you think synthtic produces more MPG s? If yes, would that mean less friction and less wear too? Just a note: notice how a lot of manufactures have increased the oil capasity so it will stay cooler and cleaner longer? thanks.

Lots of people claim better MPG on synthetics, but I think it's mostly a wash. Too many other variables. I've never noticed a measurable difference.

As far as oil capacity, some seem to be going to bigger sumps, but that isn't always indicitive of oil life capacity. I've seen plenty of UOAs from 4 quart sump Toyota Camrys that were still doing good at 10,000 mile OCIs on synthetics. And Camrys are tops on the list for sludge development...

I have my oil changed once my oil life reaches 30%

I use the OLM on all 3 of my vehicles. I used it on my 97 Vette which I sold in 2003 and I use it on the 03 Vette and 03 Tahoe that I have now. Will use it on the Malibu as well. As of now the original oil is at 85% with just over 1K miles on the car. The Tahoe sees plenty of towing time towing my Vette on a trailer and following the OLM has cut one oil change per year out of the maintenance cycle that I had with my 99 Tahoe. The two Vettes saw/see significant track time with high oil temps and the oil gets changed once per year. The last oil analysis from the 03 showed it had no more oil contamination than other cars that were not used anywhere as hard. That was on oil that had been in the car for 8 months and had been through winter driving, 9 high speed track days and plenty of autocrosses and normal driving. There is no need to change at 3K/3 months with newer engines. You are just wasting money and damaging the environment.

Bill

Just a little insight, I work for GM and they have repeatedly sent out bulletins to all employees, and especially company car drivers to use the OLM. I used it for all 130,000 miles on my 02 Grand Prix GTP before trading it for my new LTZ. Think about it this way, why would GM waist money to put this in every vehicle, that now have 100k warranties, if it doesn't work? It's not like they get a payback for you saving money by doing fewer oil changes.

/\ /\ /\

Valid and good points raised, although I think a lot of time Car Mfg's are fighting old school thinking, although I must admit I don't see any reason why more oil changes is better than just following the OLM

Service stations and dealership maintenance departments want folks to stick to the 'old ways'. It makes them money (can't really say more any longer, since the sales side of things is pretty sticky with our economy so bad right now). The first time I took the 07 Av in because the OLS indicated it needed a change, I got into a mild argument with the service advisor because he said I needed to be doing 3000mi changes or risk GM denying warranty if I ever had engine problems. I pulled out the manual and showed him GM's maintenance plan for the Av, and asked him how GM would fight a court battle where it was written in their own document? Pretty much shut him up, but he WASN'T happy.

Service stations and dealership maintenance departments want folks to stick to the 'old ways'. It makes them money (can't really say more any longer, since the sales side of things is pretty sticky with our economy so bad right now). The first time I took the 07 Av in because the OLS indicated it needed a change, I got into a mild argument with the service advisor because he said I needed to be doing 3000mi changes or risk GM denying warranty if I ever had engine problems. I pulled out the manual and showed him GM's maintenance plan for the Av, and asked him how GM would fight a court battle where it was written in their own document? Pretty much shut him up, but he WASN'T happy.

Unfortunatley, the OLM is ruffling some dealership feathers. They depend on t frequent oil changes. It's pure profit. Less than $10 in materails (for regular oil, filter, shop supplies) and they all charge around $30 for a true 15 minutes of labor. It's the EASIEST service they offer outside of tire roatations which are usually lumped into some special pacakge during the oil change. There revenue is getting dinged. Of course they want you to come in every 3000 miles. GM has been pretty good about stomping out the hard-headed dealerships, but they still exist.

I know there are plenty of "3000 mile faithfuls" who've "always done it that way and never had any issues", but there's no substance in that claim. GM now has over 31 MILLION VEHICLES since 1998 on the road using the OLM and if there were any issues, don't you think we'd hear about them by now?

I usually get my oil changed when it gets down to 25%. I'm going to read more into this before i try to change my routine.

I'll likely use the OLM and ONSTAR vehicle diagnostic as a guide. Currently, I have approximately 7.500 on my malibu. It goes approximately 140 miles of freeway at 70 mph and 6 miles of surface streets every day of the work week. The computer still reads over 60% and ONSTAR says I've got until approximately 17,000 before I change it.

I'll likely change it at 10,000 - 12,500.

Wow Gromit. That's a lot of miles each week. I only do around 60-70 each work day (varies depending on the day of the week). I'm under 30% on the OLS right now, at over 7 months and just about to turn 10,000mi. I'll stick with the manual's recommendation though- at least once a year or the OLS, whichever is more frequent. As pointed out by others, my last 5 GM vehicles have had it, and none have had any issues as a result of the oil change intervals.

The only problem I see with annual oil changes is the filter, all filters are a paper element and with time it tends to break down, I would NEVER run my oil for a year :eek: but an oil filter change should be done at the halfway point ;)

I have yet to actually go a year on any of my vehicles- the OLS always comes first. This Malibu will have gone the farthest between changes so far though. The previous recordholder was the 03 Trailblazer, which blew my mind by going almost 8000mi. before calling for the oil change. Nothing else seemed to go longer than 6000mi. My wife's new TB probably would go the full year if I was driving it to work and back rather than her drives to and from the school (lots of rural driving, stop and go, etc.).

That's an interesting point about the filters Malo. You'd expect GM to cover their butt somehow though, so I'd expect the filters are covered (or there'd be a mention of changing the filters more often in the manual?). Not too big a deal though, as I expect to be changing my oil at around the 8 month mark.

I usually get my oil changed when it gets down to 25%. I'm going to read more into this before i try to change my routine.

That's a good buffer. I try to make an appointment around 10% or so. I let it run all the way to 0% when I'm running synthetic (which I usually do). Most of the UOAs show the oil to be mostly depleted of useful additives by 0%, but still overall protecting the engine. GM claims there's a 2:1 buffer built in, but that seems a little far-fetched to me.

Here is a question.....Anyone notice how far they have to drive before they have a 1% drop in their oil life?

For example, my commute to work is about 42 miles one way, so about 82 miles round trip - All highway (I live very close to the access of the highway, and work just off of the exit.)

What I am noticing is that one round trip to work uses 1% of my oil life. Just curious if anyone else has been checking this. I will be curious to see if when it goes down further if the % has a greater drop as the it becomes more inefficient.

Here is a question.....Anyone notice how far they have to drive before they have a 1% drop in their oil life?

For example, my commute to work is about 42 miles one way, so about 82 miles round trip - All highway (I live very close to the access of the highway, and work just off of the exit.)

What I am noticing is that one round trip to work uses 1% of my oil life. Just curious if anyone else has been checking this. I will be curious to see if when it goes down further if the % has a greater drop as the it becomes more inefficient.


It depends on your driving. For my driving style and climate, it's about 100-115 miles per 1%. We've had about 2 weeks of colder mornings, and it's now ticking down a little quicker.

Just to chime in - I don't see a reason not to trust the oil monitor. It seems about any modern car has it. My reason to trust it is rather simple - 3000 miles has always been a schedule A, i.e. hard conditions. Why would I follow a schedule geared for a trailer towing/dusty areas/frequent starts and stops when I practically have none of that?
Now, the actual oil life readouts I have seen on a couple of cars before are not that much off the schedule B of the past. So......

I used to be a die-hard 3,000 mile guy (with my first at 1,000) but lately I've realized I was wasting my money. I've NEVER kept a car well over 100,000 miles where 3,000 mile oil changes would make a difference. And now with much better engines and oils, 3k oil changes are a real waste for the average driver.

As for the monitor, no I wont trust it completely. I'll change my oil around 1500-2000 miles, then probably change around 5,000 after that. I notice the oil color on the dipstick getting dark on my vehicles at around 5,000.

I know I'm jumping in here kind of late, but I was thinking the other day that I've had the car for a long time and haven't changed the oil yet. I've had my 08 Bu for around 5 months now, and the OLM is showing 35% after about 8000 miles. I initially planned on just changing the oil when the OLM got to around 5-10%, but 8000 miles that can't be right?! So in doing some research to see what others were getting I stumbled upon this thread. While I alwas used to be a 3months/3000miles guy, I think there's a lot of good opinions on this thread - and I've decided to follow the OLM. As many have said, GM wouldn't be risking their tails if they weren't confident in their OLM system - or did they know they'd be going into bankruptcy in 2009 and didn't care...hmm...??? j/k

The way I see it though is we don't change our radiator fluid every year anymore since Dexcool came out so trust the research and technology that's out there.

Okay no more 3,000 mile oil changes for me :( since I switched over to synthetic it's now 5,000 mile oil changes :D zero out the OLM at every oil change :rolleyes:

I use the OLM and usually wait until it's down around 10% The mileage has been anywhere from 4000 to as much as 7000 at one point.

I use synthetic I will go every 5k miles while on warentee and then go 7500

oh and fyi the 3k miles myth started back in the day wit the old dyno oil...that was like 70% wax or something like that. oil has come a LONG way lol

i use mobil 1 in the malibu and royal purple in the cavalier

ninja edit: when i got 7500 miles i change the filter around 4k miles

The only time I wont go by the OLM is the first oil change in the car. We changed ours at 6400 miles and it still had 56% left on the OLM. Thats a lot of miles and time on that first batch of oil that was in the car since it left the build plant.

I cant believe how many people do the 3k and change it. You need to get an used oil analysis done by Blackstone Labs and get the TBN to see how healthy your oil is. Im 99% sure you will get a response like this, "You oil has plenty of life left in it. You can easily increase your OIC (oil change interval) by 3-4k miles."

- and I've decided to follow the OLM. As many have said, GM wouldn't be risking their tails if they weren't confident in their OLM system - or did they know they'd be going into bankruptcy in 2009 and didn't care...hmm...??? j/k



GM has been using the OLM on various cars since 97 or earlier so they have plenty of experience with Customers who use it.

Okay no more 3,000 mile oil changes for me :( since I switched over to synthetic it's now 5,000 mile oil changes :D zero out the OLM at every oil change :rolleyes:


The only problem with using synthetic is the OLM isn't calibrated for it so you will end up changing oil too soon.

Bill

One of the biggest falicies in automotive is that everyone should change their oil every 3000 miles.

For those worried, I used to have a BMW 3 Series. BMW only requires oil changes every 15,000 miles. No that is not a typo. People changed the oil every 15,000 miles, and the car is fine.

I will trust the oil life system.

One of the biggest falicies in automotive is that everyone should change their oil every 3000 miles.

For those worried, I used to have a BMW 3 Series. BMW only requires oil changes every 15,000 miles. No that is not a typo. People changed the oil every 15,000 miles, and the car is fine.

I will trust the oil life system.

Very true but you didn't mention that BMW also specifies synthetic oil only for those change intervals. I believe that the Chevy OLM works fine for me and my new Malibu looks like it is going to recommend a change around 8k miles. I think my C5 used to go as long as 10k but that was again calibrated by GM for synthetic only.

I wish the OLM could be calibrated for synthetic. The think to keep in mind is that the filter should be changed sooner than 15k miles. It can go longer than you might think with a nice filter, but I wouldnt wait 15k.

I had my first changed at 3500, and Im just over 7K miles and my OLM reads 65% remaining.. So im roughly around 3500 miles so far on this oil with over half life remaining.. I will prob change oil around the 25% mark

I use synthetic I will go every 5k miles while on warentee and then go 7500

oh and fyi the 3k miles myth started back in the day wit the old dyno oil...that was like 70% wax or something like that. oil has come a LONG way lol

i use mobil 1 in the malibu and royal purple in the cavalier

ninja edit: when i got 7500 miles i change the filter around 4k miles

I want to use Mobil 1, but will it void the power train warranty?

Had oil change and tire rotation done at dealer on Saturday morning. They put a sticker on the window to remind us to have oil change in 3 months or 3000 miles. So I guess the dealer wants to get you in at 3000 miles and to disregard the Oil Life Monitor.

Of course they want you to disregard it. The oil change is their bread and butter money making machine.

GM trusts the OLM and GM is the one that pays for the warranty work so Ill trust them instead of the dealer.

Oil Change companies want you to change every 3000 miles so they can keep getting paid. Sometimes they'll let you go 5000 if you buy a more expensive oil.

Of course they want you to disregard it. The oil change is their bread and butter money making machine.

GM trusts the OLM and GM is the one that pays for the warranty work so Ill trust them instead of the dealer.

I wouldn't put that much faith in GM or the Dealer ;)

GM does. They could care less if you change your oil sooner rather than later. If you go over 0% on the OLM you can kiss your warranty good bye.

Dealer wants your $30 every oil change because it costs them about $6 to get all the materials. If you get it changed every 7500 instead of every 3000 thats literally cutting their profit in half and then the fact that they wont make that money on the every oil change.

Its all a money game for the dealers in a down economy.

I dont think that GM can enforce a warranty removal based on your OLM readings. It's possible you just never reset it.

I'm running mine out to 10k miles per oil change with Mobil 1. I dont own this car - it is a company provided vehicle so whoopee! If dino can go 7500 Mobil 1 should be able to go 10k easy.

I'm at 9k for this current oil and the DIC still reads 48%. This is based on average mph of 48 and mpg of 30.2 with the 2.4l engine.

They have denied warranties on lesser stuff.

Our dealer seriously told us that we had to reset the OLM EVERY oil change or we might get it denied. Doesnt matter who resets it but as long as it is, then its a go.

They have denied warranties on lesser stuff.

Our dealer seriously told us that we had to reset the OLM EVERY oil change or we might get it denied. Doesnt matter who resets it but as long as it is, then its a go.

I suppose, but if push came to shove the OLM would not hold up as you could have easily not reset it and kept up on the oil changes at home.

I want to use Mobil 1, but will it void the power train warranty?

I don't see why it would. But i use ac delco filters just incase they try and be an ass

My brother had an engine problem and had been changing his own oil every 3500 miles -- he even had the receipts to prove it. His claim under his warranty was denied.

I always keep any paperwork to prove I had my oil changed. Safer that way. I also get my oil changed at the dealer until my warranty has expired.

My brother had an engine problem and had been changing his own oil every 3500 miles -- he even had the receipts to prove it. His claim under his warranty was denied.

I always keep any paperwork to prove I had my oil changed. Safer that way. I also get my oil changed at the dealer until my warranty has expired.

Warranty claims may be denied at first because they're always going to try to find an out, even if you had them do all of the work on the car. If even 10% of people accept the denial they save a lot of money. My point being that it is more common to deny than to accept on a large, expensive claim. That doesn't meant that you will not have your warranty honored. You have to fight them and work for it a little.

Warranty claims may be denied at first because they're always going to try to find an out, even if you had them do all of the work on the car. If even 10% of people accept the denial they save a lot of money. My point being that it is more common to deny than to accept on a large, expensive claim. That doesn't meant that you will not have your warranty honored. You have to fight them and work for it a little.

In 44 years of owning GM cars never had GM deny a warranty claim that was valid. Although I did have one Olds dealer try to collect payment from me on a repair that was covered by an unannounced GM warranty extension for that part. When I complained to GM about having to pay to repair this failure they checked into what the dealer did and I received a refund check from the dealer and an apology letter from GM. I never took my car back to that dealer again.

Bill

Warranty claims may be denied at first because they're always going to try to find an out, even if you had them do all of the work on the car. If even 10% of people accept the denial they save a lot of money. My point being that it is more common to deny than to accept on a large, expensive claim. That doesn't meant that you will not have your warranty honored. You have to fight them and work for it a little.

He went back three times to the dealer where he bought the truck, talked to the manager, tried several different dealers, even threatened a lawyer. No deal.

BTW, this was NOT GM. It was Toyota.

He went back three times to the dealer where he bought the truck, talked to the manager, tried several different dealers, even threatened a lawyer. No deal.

BTW, this was NOT GM. It was Toyota.


Well then either the claim was denied for some other reason than his changing the oil himself, or he should've gotten a lawyer because if that was the reason, and he showed proof of it, he would've won for the repair, damages, legal costs, and likely some additional compensation. There would be about a hundred lawyers lining up offering to work for no out of pocket money.

When i bought my Malibu in early Mach the salesman told me about the oil life monitor thing and I was thinking to myself yea I think I will just change my oil every 3000 miles like I have since I was 16 with my first car. My odomer got upto about 3500 I decided I would pull the dipstick and check things out. To my suprise the oil looked great it had a light almond color to it. After that I have decied that I will follow the OLM and save myself some money, while keeping my engine protected. Obviously if I had pulled the dipstick and it looked dirty I would have changed it that day, but I am satisfied that following the OLM is just as safe as changing my oil every 3000 miles.

First I am an AMSOIL guy for 20+ years. Since my wife has the 09 Malibu I will use her history and oil change interval.

Nov 1996 purchased a 1997 Marlo Carlo w/3.1 V6 kept car till Nov 2004. The MC had just over 100,000 miles with 7 oil changes
In Nov 2004 purchased a 2004 Malibu w/3.5 V-6 kept car till June 2009 again just over 100,000 miles 5 oil changes. My wife averages 22,000 miles per year.
In a few weeks I will change the oil in new car to oil designed for extended drains (0W-30)

In the 1990's I would average over 35K miles per year and used the same oil in my V-8 engines. In 2001 I went to the other side with a Ford PSD that logged over 200,000 miles on two oil changes. But it had a BY Pass Filter System. The only reason for 2 oil changes a new oil tech accidentally drained my oil pan.

So you only do annual oil changes??? do you change out the filter in between? :confused:

Years past I would change filter after 10K ~ 12K miles not the filters designed for extended drains 25K+ I change once per year. In fact my wifes old 2004 car had one filter change from 5/02/08 @ 82,015 miles to 5/16/09 @ 100,318 miles.
FYI
I sampled the oil at this change just to check engine and all was good.

Ken

Years past I would change filter after 10K ~ 12K miles not the filters designed for extended drains 25K+ I change once per year. In fact my wifes old 2004 car had one filter change from 5/02/08 @ 82,015 miles to 5/16/09 @ 100,318 miles.
FYI
I sampled the oil at this change just to check engine and all was good.

Ken

I'm wondering just what how the oil was sampled. What do you mean by that? Did you take a small sample and send it off to a lab for analysis?

That oil change intervals seems crazy, but what do I know? I guess I've been fed all kinds of BS by the car manufacturers who are in collusion with the oil companies. They keep telling us that oils, even if filtered, break down over time and use, and I believed them. All their lab data must be made up or tweaked to get us to spend money unnecessarily.

What is an "extended drain" filter? Who makes it and what makes it different than a good standard one? If it had sub-micron filtration levels needed for removing more contaminants than a normal filter, wouldn't it have to be bigger to achieve the same flow rate?

I'm just curious about this interval you use that's over 3X longer than any popularly-accepted interval.

What is an "extended drain" filter? Who makes it and what makes it different than a good standard one? If it had sub-micron filtration levels needed for removing more contaminants than a normal filter, wouldn't it have to be bigger to achieve the same flow rate?

I'm just curious about this interval you use that's over 3X longer than any popularly-accepted interval.

Key words in bold.

Its only popular because it was drilled into our parents heads in the 40s-60s. We have come a LONG LONG LONG way since then. Most modern cars do not get the oil as dirty as old cars hence why the main reason it lasts longers. Also, oil is far more than just oil now. It has tons of additive packages to stop the breakdown of the oil itself and to resist sludge build up from dirt, water and gas.

My first oil change was at 8k miles and that was at 50% OLM. Just wanted to get the regular oil out. We are now on schedule to use the oil for 12-13k miles.

For an extended life oil filter just get a quality one like Mobil 1, K&N, Napa Gold and so on. Search the internet for oil filter reviews and see what a Fram looks like after 2-3k miles and decide for yourself if they are good enough for your car.

Key words in bold.

Its only popular because it was drilled into our parents heads in the 40s-60s. We have come a LONG LONG LONG way since then. Most modern cars do not get the oil as dirty as old cars hence why the main reason it lasts longers. Also, oil is far more than just oil now. It has tons of additive packages to stop the breakdown of the oil itself and to resist sludge build up from dirt, water and gas.

My first oil change was at 8k miles and that was at 50% OLM. Just wanted to get the regular oil out. We are now on schedule to use the oil for 12-13k miles.

For an extended life oil filter just get a quality one like Mobil 1, K&N, Napa Gold and so on. Search the internet for oil filter reviews and see what a Fram looks like after 2-3k miles and decide for yourself if they are good enough for your car.

i always end up using the delco. mobil 1 and k&n i have used alot...but price is more..and i won't use wix for personal reasons lol

The new Delco is made by the same people who make Fram. IE: Cardboard end caps. Not good if you are running more than 3k miles on an oil change.

The new Delco is made by the same people who make Fram. IE: Cardboard end caps. Not good if you are running more than 3k miles on an oil change.

while i agree there is a huge lawsuit we deal with here at my job...basically a shit ton of dodge hemi's had oil problems...dodge denied ALL that didn't have a mopar filter on them

I'm wondering just what how the oil was sampled. What do you mean by that? Did you take a small sample and send it off to a lab for analysis?

That oil change intervals seems crazy, but what do I know? I guess I've been fed all kinds of BS by the car manufacturers who are in collusion with the oil companies. They keep telling us that oils, even if filtered, break down over time and use, and I believed them. All their lab data must be made up or tweaked to get us to spend money unnecessarily.

What is an "extended drain" filter? Who makes it and what makes it different than a good standard one? If it had sub-micron filtration levels needed for removing more contaminants than a normal filter, wouldn't it have to be bigger to achieve the same flow rate?

I'm just curious about this interval you use that's over 3X longer than any popularly-accepted interval.

In a few days I will turn 63 years old so I have been around alot of oil changes since for 30+ years I drove over 35K per years. In the 1960's my Father schedule was lube every 1K, oil every 2K and filter every 4K
Yes I sent and oil sample about 4 oz. to lab for testing. Have I ever had a bad report on an oil sample YES. In 1999 a Z71 truck after the first year of driving the sample report was to get that oil out of truck (trash and water in oil). I called the lab tech for hime to explain why sample was bad. During the time he questioned what type of airfilter was on truck, AMSOIL. I had put on truck when new. long and short I did not fit/seat filter correctly caused the trash to enetr engine. Also the wife's 1997 M/C with just over 100K the oil sample came back with just a trace of antifreeze (DEXCOOL) in sample. But I have had many sample that reort good. An oil sample cost about $20.00.
Checkout AMSOIL.com look at data on Series 2000 0W-30 oil and EA Oil Filters.

If I can be of any help let me know

Ken

I wait until about 99% OLM and get it changed. No more of that 3000 mile frequency.

If you change your oil at 3000 miles you are wasting oil and money, simple as that.

http://www.3000milemyth.org/whatsbeingsaid.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-wAekX-xA

And a video about the oil life monitor from GM. Can you imagine the warranty clams that GM would have if the oill life monitor DIDN'T work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeLV9v5vvzw&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeLV9v5vvzw&feature=related

I don't know why I can't get the above video to embed. :confused:

From the PDF on the above site...

The 3,000-Mile Myth

“ Although oil companies and quick-lube shops like to promote this idea that engine oil should be changed every 3,000 miles], it’s usually not necessary. Go by the recommended oil-change schedule in your vehicle’s owner’s manual.
Most vehicles driven under normal conditions can go 7,500 miles or more between oil changes. Some models now come with a monitoring system that alerts the driver when the oil needs changing. Depending on driving
conditions, these can extend change intervals to 10,000 or 15,000 miles.”
– Consumer Reports, December 2006

“ Most manufacturers now recommend changing the oil every 7,500 miles. We recommend doing it every 5,000 miles, because we tend to be more cautious about protecting the engine. Very few people recommend
changing the oil every 3,000 miles anymore. It’s just not necessary, and the environmental cost is too high.”
– Tom and Ray Magliozzi, hosts of NPR’s
Car Talk, in the Detroit News, April 6, 2005

“ …for the vast majority, 5,000-mile oil changes will help your engine last to a ripe, old age.”
– Tom and Ray Magliozzi, hosts of NPR’s
Car Talk, on MSNBC, April 17, 2006

“ Conventional wisdom has held that the oil should be changed about every 3,000 miles. This notion has been ingrained into people’s heads for decades, in part as a marketing ploy by oil companies. The 3,000-mile interval made sense when engines used single-grade nondetergent oils. But with the latest oils and car designs, it’s no longer necessary to change oil that often under normal driving conditions.”
– Steve Ritter, in Chemical & Engineering
News, March 13, 2006

“ Synthetic oils, because of their better properties, need to be changed less often, at intervals up to 25,000 miles or more. In the end, the best advice on the type of oil to use and the frequency of oil changes is to follow the manufacturer’s recommendation in your car owner’s manual.”
– Steve Ritter, in Chemical & Engineering
News, March 13, 2006

“ Most major automakers agree: The adage that you should change your car’s oil every 3,000 miles is outdated, and even 5,000 miles may be too often.”
– Tom Krisher, Associated Press, in the
Deseret News, March 26, 2007

“ I remember getting my first car (a hand-me-down) and how my father kept telling me how important it was to change the oil every 3,000 miles. A lot has changed since then. Today’s oil is much better, and it can last a lot longer. Here’s what to do: Check your owner’s manual and follow the manufacturer’s recommendation.”
– Herb Weisbaum, MSNBC ConsumerMan,
April 17, 2006

“ Ford Motor Company generally recommends getting an oil change every 5,000 miles or every six months, whichever comes first.”
— www.ford.com

“ Conventional wisdom holds that change intervals should be limited to a maximum of three months or 3,000 miles, but that is something of a misnomer. Actually, most manufacturers recommend oil change intervals of
7,500 miles or once-a-year under normal operating conditions or 3,000 miles/3-months under severe operating conditions. And in Europe it’s not uncommon to see oil changes exceeding 10,000 miles.”
– Christine and Scott Gable, About.com

My company car (leased through GE Fleet Services) has a maintenance schedule that has changed from the 4,000 mile intervals of my last vehicle (a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid) to 6,000 miles with the Malibu.

On my personal cars, my wife's Nissan is on a 5,000 mile schedule with dino oil. With my BMW, I use it's OLM system and it seems to go about 8,000 miles on it's load of synthetic, the recommended lube. I didn't see anything in the compilation above that recommended exceeding much more than 7,500 miles for regular motor oils, though there's that one citing "up to 25,000 miles or more" for synthetics. I won't ever go anywhere near that. By the time the BMW's OLM says it's time, the oil is just a shade away from BLACK. Sign enough for me to change it. I'm not risking my motor for less than a penny a day of savings!

You know what they say about Opinions!!! :rolleyes:

You know what they say about Opinions!!! :rolleyes:

They are like butt holes, everybody has one!!! lol:D

Your too kind Snow White :D:D:D

They are like butt holes, everybody has one!!! lol:D

....and they all stink. ;)


Except mine. :D

Key words in bold.

Its only popular because it was drilled into our parents heads in the 40s-60s. We have come a LONG LONG LONG way since then. Most modern cars do not get the oil as dirty as old cars hence why the main reason it lasts longers. Also, oil is far more than just oil now. It has tons of additive packages to stop the breakdown of the oil itself and to resist sludge build up from dirt, water and gas.



In the 40s oil change intervals were a lot shorter than 3K miles. I remember when Kendall used to advertise its oil as the 2000 mile oil. Using their oil you could get twice the oil life than with other oils. It wasn't until the 60s with the advent of chrome rings that oil change intervals extended to 3K miles or 3 months and they stayed that way for about 30 years. Since the mid 90s the intervals have been extended considerably. We have about 7300 miles on our 08 LTZ w 2.4 and the OLM says 16% oil life left with 11 months of usage on the oil since the car went into service. I have an appointment set up to have the dealer do the first change this coming Tuesday. So with this car we basically will have changed the oil once per year. The usage on my 03 Tahoe tow vehicle has dropped enough I will be changing oil once per year on it as well. The oil was changed in Sept last year and the OLM indicates 32% left after 4K of hard miles towing the Vette. I have been averaging about 4K miles per year with about 1K of track miles on my Corvettes for the past 12 years and I change the oil once per year on them.

Bill

I trusted the OLM on my '04 GTO and the Mobil 1 in too. Not a drop of oil used in over 8,000 miles, and still looked pretty clean when changed. I extended to about 10K with the monitor showing about 20% remaining. Those LSx GM V-8's are rocks solid!

Im from the UK and have had my BU a LT2 for about 1 year now. I let the OLM run down to about 30% before having it serviced. Back in the UK service intervals usually range from about 10,000 miles upto about 25,000 so im not really sure about the reason of doing an oil change at 3,000 intervals. We have Chevys back in the UK running 12,000 miles between a service mind you back in the UK a basic service is about $200 so over here it really is "as cheap as chips" as we say.

I have not performed my first oil change on this car yet, but is it possible to change the oil filter without doing an oil change?

I have the 4 cyclinder and the oil canister is on top so it looks like you could remove it without much oil loss.

You can change it as often as you want, but the question is why would you change the filter and not change the oil? Usually the oil wears out (the additives can no longer function) before the filter medium has any issues, so changing the filter is done during an oil change because it makes sense.

I change it at 5000 miles and have been for years on everything.

i dont trust the life indicator, i always change the oil at mileage intervals of 3k

All I can say is that the big oil companies love you folks that change oil at 3,000 miles! Just once, try sending the "worn out" oil into a lab for a test, along with new. You'd be quite surprised at the low levels of contaminants.

I'm not giving the oil companies any more of my money than I have to. I have cars with well over 100,000 miles on them that don't burn a drop and have all the power they did with 10,000 miles on them. My '09 Malibu 1FL (4 cyl.) has 58,263 miles on it right now, and gets oil changes at the fleet management's 5,000 mile intervals. When they change it, the OLM is usually at somewhere between 30% and 40% life remaining.

The oil they take out looks near perfectly clean, just a tiny hint of discoloration. I'm guessing that those who change @ 3K are older folk (I'm 51) who have been doing it like that all their life. Nothing is going to change just because technology has advanced. ;)

GM is out with a new engine oil, dexos1. It will be GF5 rated. When I use GF5 rated oil I am then using the OLM to the letter. I understand GF5 is semi-synthetic oil.

hey im only 19 and i change mine every 3 religiously.....with full synthetic too.
lol me and chevyguy8839 like an over obsessively clean engine

All I can say is that the big oil companies love you folks that change oil at 3,000 miles! Just once, try sending the "worn out" oil into a lab for a test, along with new. You'd be quite surprised at the low levels of contaminants.I'm not giving the oil companies any more of my money than I have to. I have cars with well over 100,000 miles on them that don't burn a drop and have all the power they did with 10,000 miles on them. My '09 Malibu 1FL (4 cyl.) has 58,263 miles on it right now, and gets oil changes at the fleet management's 5,000 mile intervals. When they change it, the OLM is usually at somewhere between 30% and 40% life remaining.

The oil they take out looks near perfectly clean, just a tiny hint of discoloration. I'm guessing that those who change @ 3K are older folk (I'm 51) who have been doing it like that all their life. Nothing is going to change just because technology has advanced. ;)

I'm 53 and keep my mind open to real advances in technology, etc. I don't use the "Turbonator" to make my air more turbulent at the throttle body - skeptical and it's probably just snake oil. But synthetic oil and longer change intervals are scientifically justifiable to me.

The biggest destroyer of oil is contaminants that have not been dealt with by the additives placed there to do just that, e.g. water from condensation, gas getting by the rings, etc. The OIL is still oil and continues to lubricate, so why change it? Because the ADDITIVES are there to keep corrosion, deposits, etc. from harming your engine. THOSE are what you're changing, not the "oil". The oil is simply a method to transport the additives throughout the oiled regions.

When you switch to synth blend or full synth you gain improved physical qualities of the synth, such as improved viscosity stability, improved friction reduction, etc. It doesn't break down, but the additives have less to do with reduced friction (aka, fewer pieces of metal being worn away) and less heat from that friction. It can go a lot longer between changes, but should still be changed at least once a year. For me that'll be about 10,000 miles.

GM is out with a new engine oil, dexos1. It will be GF5 rated. When I use GF5 rated oil I am then using the OLM to the letter. I understand GF5 is semi-synthetic oil.

The OLM is calibrated for dino oil. Using it to the letter now will save you money and result in no damage to your engine that wouldn't be done even with more frequent changes.

Going by the letter on a synth blend is still a good choice and I tip my hat to you.

hey im only 19 and i change mine every 3 religiously.....with full synthetic too.
lol me and chevyguy8839 like an over obsessively clean engine

Changing full synth that often is throwing your money away, but it's yours to do with as you wish.

Another thing to consider as well is the environment. Oil still has to be processed (they recycle it) and new chemicals added to produce a "new" quart of oil for sale. Synth has to be produced from somewhere as well. Either of those two processes requires more energy to be consumed than is necessary, adding pollution to the environment the same way, unnecessarily. But so does just driving our cars. So, shall we all jump on the environmental bandwagon and ditch our cars? Nope. It's just another piece of the whole picture puzzle. To have a bigger impact on being obsessively clean you couldn't do better than to consider the environment. Besides, you get to keep some of that loot in your pockets! Win-Win!

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These are just my opinions. No grasshoppers were harmed in the production of this post! ;)

hey im only 19 and i change mine every 3 religiously.....with full synthetic too.
lol me and chevyguy8839 like an over obsessively clean engine

Changing synthetic at 3000 intervals is a waste of money. If you feel the need for 3000 mile changes, just use dino. Synthetic should be kept in for at least 5000 miles or your wasting $$$$.

GM is out with a new engine oil, dexos1. It will be GF5 rated. When I use GF5 rated oil I am then using the OLM to the letter. I understand GF5 is semi-synthetic oil.

Mobil 1 has now been certified dexos1.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

You can change it as often as you want, but the question is why would you change the filter and not change the oil? Usually the oil wears out (the additives can no longer function) before the filter medium has any issues, so changing the filter is done during an oil change because it makes sense.

Depends on the environment. For most drivers, yes, you're right - but an intermediate filter change and add to cover will help if the environment is dusty enough.

RwP

You can change it as often as you want, but the question is why would you change the filter and not change the oil? Usually the oil wears out (the additives can no longer function) before the filter medium has any issues, so changing the filter is done during an oil change because it makes sense.


Only asked since some fear that 8 to 10,000 miles is OK for the oil, but not the paper filter, and what I meant was is it easy to change without making a hugh mess, or oil draining from the car while its out.

Mobil 1 has now been certified dexos1.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

Too pricey for me, looking for something a little cheaper.

3000 miles for me.....just makes me feel better

3000 miles for me.....just makes me feel better

Well 1500 miles will make you feel even better. That's what is was in the old days.

must of been around 1920! because i dont remember 1500,,,,,I will stick with 3000 miles....You must be old as dirt....haha

Well I remember carburetors, you know with the choke that would blacken the oil almost over night.

You guys changing your Oil at 3K Miles, must either love wasting money, be hella gullible, or both! :eek: Those who change SYNTHETIC Oil at 3K are just nuts!

A car maker that can design and engineer an engine worth a damn, these days, Oil Changes can be had at over 10K Miles per interval, using Synthetic (I always recommend Synthetic).

My Benz goes 13K Miles until the (expensive) Oil Change is due. Most "high end" cars in fact have efficient enough motors, that require oil changes at 10-15K (Porsche being one of them).

I don't expect these GM motors to be up to those levels of efficiency, but I trust the GM Oil Life monitor, and won't waste my money on changing the oil out beforehand. Then again, GM's not known to be so precise with the quality control, so maybe their Oil Life Monitor has no real relevance.... Which would be a huge disappointment, as you'd at least expect your car maker to have your back in making sure they recommend the perfect maintenance schedule on your car.

100%

If GM engineering is confident enough to develop and apply the technology, while providing 100K mile warranty on the powertrain, I'm confident enough to trust it.



I totally agree. And I believe 3K interval is a marketing gimmick.

Since switching to Synthetic I do 5K oil changes on my LTZ, the OLM is a gimmick initself :D