The brakes seemed to be fine except a question was brought to mind about the ABS because I tested the straight line braking traction after the rear broke loose on wet road. Straight line seemed to brake sufficiently with the ABS activating, from about 25MPH. But it seemed the ABS was not activating the rear.
I paid no more attention to this point although it lingered in my mind. After driving 1000 miles of highway, I had to do some sudden braking in Chicago traffic. I damned near did not stop in time and it seemed to take too long to slow the vehicle. I also noted the vehicle pitched forward and under safer conditions tested braking noting it was again pitching forward as if the rear brakes were not working. At a stop, I pushed the pedal to the floor and for some time after braking seemed normal. But in short time it was as before.
Repeating pushing to the floor seems to correct problem, but only temporarily.

I've read through the posts about pads being replaced. I would like to know more about that. It seems the complaints may have all been on front axle. Is that so?
Do they replace both front and rear?
What is the real cause for the problem? Is it something with the new material in the pad? Or something like sticking calipers, faulty ABS unit or master cylinder?
Does GM know the real cause of the issue, and/or are they delaying replacement of far more expensive parts until your 3yr/36K is past? (pads are cheap)

Back to my problem of insufficient rear braking. It seems unlikely that it is a pad problem because they seem fine after pushing to floor. It brings to mind components that might be causing pad problems on your vehicles. Possibilities could be sticking calipers, ABS unit, and master cylinder. Any of these not properly releasing could be causing the premature wear of pads. Also a diverter valve/proportioning valve, which may be internal to master or ABS might be involved with not supplying enough pressure to the rear as in my case. When ABS is involved, some systems do not use a proportioning valve which normally ensures that too much pressure is not applied to rear causing the rear to skid. The ABS takes up the work of that valve.

Also the pre-mature wear and glazing on the front could be caused because they are picking up the work of insufficient braking on rear. That is, we might all have the same issue. You might try what I did and then see if the vehicle pitchs less toward the front with normal stopping.

You need to seriously get rid of your car. Either something is seriously wrong with it, or you're just so damned picky that nothing will make you happy. I'm voting for the latter since no one on here has had as many quirks as you have had with your car.

Just an FYI they are replacing the brakes due to squealing. There is absolutely no safety issue. I think you're just looking for things to complain about on your car. Just an FYI there's a blinker fluid issue, so you may want that checked out as well.

How do you know the rear isnt braking?

Who is to say that you havent been in a braking situation where the car calls for ABS to activate on all four wheels?

For what its worth, the TCS and ABS work together on this car. The ABS will NOT activate until the TCS has lost control. ABS is a last resort. If it never activates then it means the other systems are working.

Also, the car goes forward because the cars weight shifts forward under hard braking. That does not mean the rear brakes arent working. Read up on how brakes actually work before you complain about a completely normal aspect. Same reason it lurches back when you hit the gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaas5NbIlw

Go to around 1:20 and watch how the car lurches forward. Sure that is a ZR1 but EVERY car is the same.


Pads are getting replaced because people dont understand that brakes make noise every now and then. Usually its a scraping, high pitched noise when you first hit the brakes and then it goes away. We have been babied to think that no noise means its a good braking system. Physics tend to disagree with the US consumer.

You need to seriously get rid of your car. Either something is seriously wrong with it, or you're just so damned picky that nothing will make you happy. I'm voting for the latter since no one on here has had as many quirks as you have had with your car.

Just an FYI they are replacing the brakes due to squealing. There is absolutely no safety issue. I think you're just looking for things to complain about on your car. Just an FYI there's a blinker fluid issue, so you may want that checked out as well.

I am trying to negotiate some sort of trade. Still shopping though.
Picky is a very poor choice of word because it implies you are willing to accept crap. Being astute and observant of the abilities of cars is more qualified and I could only hope others are since my safety depends upon others on the road as well.
Your best safety comes from knowing the capabilities of your auto. Knowing your car to the point that a split decision is necessary as to drive or brake your way out of a dilema. Some of the newer equipment is supposed to aid with either decision although the power available would weight the situation toward braking.
Brakes squealing. Somewhere I had asked for more exact info on this. Some were claiming that pads were becoming glazed which usually not only makes for poor braking, it affects the surface of the rotor, sometimes evident by a blueing of the surface. This is an indication they have become too hot and the characteristics of the metal have changed. Most often a turning is done in hopes that the situation is on the surface only. When installing new pads (or shoes) it is recommended that you always resurface the rotor so that the new break in properly. If the run out is OK and you don't have deep cuts, it is OK to just rough up the surface with coarse grit sandpaper. Semi-metallic pads were more forgiving on this issue because they wear more of the surface of the rotor away. I know the composite pads were more finicky on this issue but don't really know about the latest, the ceramic.
Again, more info needed to exact nature. Squealing could mean the wear indicators. It could be the more common problem created by dust and cheap pads that either did not have the anti-squeal goop used on installation or had a poor quality anti-squeal built in. Specifics are needed to narrow the issue.

Blinker fluid, cute. While your having your's checked can you get me a spool of flight line and a gallon of prop wash. ;-)
Oops, tipped my hand. Whether at altitude or 0 altitude safety should be job one.

How do you know the rear isnt braking?

Who is to say that you havent been in a braking situation where the car calls for ABS to activate on all four wheels?

For what its worth, the TCS and ABS work together on this car. The ABS will NOT activate until the TCS has lost control. ABS is a last resort. If it never activates then it means the other systems are working.
Also, the car goes forward because the cars weight shifts forward under hard braking. That does not mean the rear brakes arent working. Read up on how brakes actually work before you complain about a completely normal aspect. Same reason it lurches back when you hit the gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaas5NbIlw

Go to around 1:20 and watch how the car lurches forward. Sure that is a ZR1 but EVERY car is the same.

Pads are getting replaced because people dont understand that brakes make noise every now and then. Usually its a scraping, high pitched noise when you first hit the brakes and then it goes away. We have been babied to think that no noise means its a good braking system. Physics tend to disagree with the US consumer.

A saying of mine is, "Brakes are important but they don't mean a thing if the tires aren't up to the job."
Two very important issues to me.

Perhaps the gist was not clear in that I was referring to unusual lurching. That is I'm experiencing too much forward lurch under normal braking along with the couple times I've tested it seems the rear ABS is not functioning. Straight line tests so TCS should not enter into the situation.
If you have the exact function of this TCS or can point to it, I'd appreciate that info. One TCS system I know of is extremely dumbed down. If slippage is detected it only kills power. It is so dumb that there are numerous complaints of drivers being stuck at lights on slippery spots and having to push the vehicle past that point.

There is normal and abnormal. Several years back I bought a used Grand Marquis with 22K miles. It was billed by the same dealer I bought Malibu from as perfect condition other than ding in rear bumper. Story was it belonged to their fleet manager's father-in-law who passed away and they traded two vehicles for one newer. After getting some highway mileage on it, I discovered a horrible constant spark knock at speed, braking issues, and I think the third issue may have been gas mileage. 13 around town and 16 highway. They had the car back several times and actually worked on it, evident by my surprise visits and new parts installed. Repeatedly claimed they fixed it. I eventually took a shot at it and found someone had replaced the gasket under the throttle-body and it was missing a small hole for feed-back pressure, a necessary component for the EGR system. Mileage improved but not much. The brake issue, I saw them turning the rotors and drums and it had new pads and shoes, and hardware and they said they bled the system. I reinspected the work. My wife had first incident of panic stop where vehicle went into sideways skid, left road crossing sidewalk and barely missing power pole to end up in vacant lot. She had a similar second incident. I had an incident where someone was not obeying direction arrows and discovered that at the peak of the bridge. That panic stop put me sideways to oncoming traffic. I know the answer, you diagnose it.

How do you know the rear isnt braking?

Also, the car goes forward because the cars weight shifts forward under hard braking. That does not mean the rear brakes arent working. Read up on how brakes actually work before you complain about a completely normal aspect. Same reason it lurches back when you hit the gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaas5NbIlw

Go to around 1:20 and watch how the car lurches forward. Sure that is a ZR1 but EVERY car is the same.


Nice video, but maybe you should pay a little closer attention to what I pointed out as normal braking, not panic.
The closest in the video would still be heavy braking compared to normal and that is during the slolum. If you notice, the front compresses but the rear stays level maintaining as much traction as possible on the rear. The rear does not lurch, a big difference.
One of the best systems used prior to ABS was something developed by Mazda and then fully implemented in Fords. It had a valve located on the body mechanically linked to the rear axle. It replaced the normal diverter/proportioning valve that limited the pressure to rear brakes in hoping you did not lock them up. That system was a dumb valve because it was the same under all conditions. The Mazda system worked according to how much weight was on the back of the vehicle. If you had rear passengers, loaded trunk, full tank of fuel, it automatically allowed more braking force to rear. GM's closest counter part was the introduction of 2 wheel anti-lock. Whether it is an older system or a full ABS, I expect the brakes to work properly.
If you have a drum system, you have to arch the shoes when replacing to get that new car braking.

I am trying to negotiate some sort of trade. Still shopping though.
Picky is a very poor choice of word because it implies you are willing to accept crap. Being astute and observant of the abilities of cars is more qualified and I could only hope others are since my safety depends upon others on the road as well.
Your best safety comes from knowing the capabilities of your auto. Knowing your car to the point that a split decision is necessary as to drive or brake your way out of a dilema. Some of the newer equipment is supposed to aid with either decision although the power available would weight the situation toward braking.

Picky is not a poor choice of words. Give me a new Lexus for 5 years, then stick me in a Malibu. I'm pretty sure I could easily pick apart how cheap and crappy the malibu is. What you fail to realize is that there's a 20-30k difference in price, which diretly relates to build quality and features. Given the competition and the price of the malibu, I will say that it is very well built. Especially having owned a Grand Am, which if still built today, would be in the same class.

Never driven a new, High end car, I can say that I have not been spoiled or warped to think that there is something better. Now, I know that there are much better systems out there, so given what I'm working with, I make a real world judgement call on the malibu's system.

The timing of your response is great, too. We just got our first big snow the last two days. It gave me time to push my car to see how it reacts in different situations. From my experience, the ABS system works just fine, if not better than my previous cars. No issues, seems to work just like any other ABS system I've had in a car. Stability control was awesome. Never having it before makes me really appreciate it. I could barely tell which wheel(s) was breaking, and it even prevented me from sliding sideways on a sheet of ice. I would say that it worked exceptionally well and did what it was intedned to do. I'm sure there's more sophisticated systems out there, but for what segment this car is in, I would say it's fitting, and perfectly acceptable the way it is.

The TCS is in the Malibu is amazing. It can modulate the brakes on independent wheels to slow that ONE wheel from slipping until its under control. It can also literally stop the car from spinning out. Go try it in an empty parking lot when you get your first big snow. Of course its not to play the role of the driver but it is a great driver AIDE. If you dont think that TCS comes into play during a straight line braking then you need to inform yourself on how MODERN TCS systems work.

On a modern car the rear ABS will hardly ever activate because the front does the majority of the braking. For the rear to activate they need to be on the verge of breaking contact and locking up just like the fronts so commonly do.

The car moving forward (regardless of how much because that is a driver judgement) is NORMAL. If your last car didnt do it then something was wrong with it. Either the front shocks/struts were bad, the front brakes werent working as good as they should of and so on.


Grand Marq is semi easy. The car was going into axle hop. Its fairly common with RWD solid axle cars and it stems from the front brakes grabbing too much usually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47K69-1th-g

Go to about :56 seconds into the video. Gordon spun because the rear end started to axle hop. Yes, its NASCAR and its a different car but the principle is the same.

Interesting discussion however a lot of confusion about the terms. ABS only functions when the brake pedal is pushed, it does not do anything when the Traction Control system functions, traction control will only work when the throttle is being applied, Stability control will work with both ABS and Traction Control or by itself.

As for the OP I am not sure what the rear end sliding has to do with insufficient braking in the rear. If the rear end isn't generating enough brake effort the rear wheels will not lock up, they will still have lateral traction and will not slide sideways. However, if there is sufficient brake effort and the ABS isn't working the rear wheels could lock up and the rear could slide sideways.

As for my own Bu the brakes, stability control, traction control and the ABS work great.

Bill

Interesting discussion however a lot of confusion about the terms. ABS only functions when the brake pedal is pushed, it does not do anything when the Traction Control system functions, traction control will only work when the throttle is being applied, Stability control will work with both ABS and Traction Control or by itself.

As for the OP I am not sure what the rear end sliding has to do with insufficient braking in the rear. If the rear end isn't generating enough brake effort the rear wheels will not lock up, they will still have lateral traction and will not slide sideways. However, if there is sufficient brake effort and the ABS isn't working the rear wheels could lock up and the rear could slide sideways.

As for my own Bu the brakes, stability control, traction control and the ABS work great.

Bill

Glad to hear yours is perfect, that gives hope. Sliding and braking were separate issues, unless you read in that some say the TCS system should have kicked in on the slide or possibly the reaction time of the TCS is being hampered by poorly responding rear brakes.

Grand Marq is semi easy. The car was going into axle hop. Its fairly common with RWD solid axle cars and it stems from the front brakes grabbing too much usually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47K69-1th-g

Go to about :56 seconds into the video. Gordon spun because the rear end started to axle hop. Yes, its NASCAR and its a different car but the principle is the same.

I know about wheel hop. Never got around to doing what I needed with suspension on '68 Mustang, 302 Hi Perf.
Don't know what acceleration has to do with braking, but stunned that I was getting wheel hop on Malibu.

Maquis, no wheel hop, just slide. OK, I'll reveal the issue since you were on the right track with braking. Actually I missed the problem that was in plain site, but then so did several professionals. We deemed the car so dangerous that we sold it to an old man telling him of the problem and he said he needed it to just make the grocery store a few blocks away. Speed limit 25 and he was on crutches. Two weeks later he was arrested for child abuse, sexual.
I was working on another vehicle and popped open the Chilton's. There it was, the picture of the factory device installed to the divertor/proportioning valve for proper brake bleeding. It had never been removed from the factory!
Also the rear quarter panel was bondoed, the same side as the bent bumper, and the same side it always swung to on us, three times. Almost unbelievable that that vehicle had at least five incidents and no one could solve the problem.