2009 Malibu Brake Light Question [Archive] - Chevy Malibu Forum: Chevrolet Malibu Forums

: 2009 Malibu Brake Light Question


nestle555
05-15-2011, 12:32 PM
Having issue with brake lights coming on periodically after brake pedal is pressed and released. Thanks for any input.

DrivenDaily
05-16-2011, 04:46 AM
Not sure where to direct you but here are some facts you may not be aware of.

The brake lights in the 2008-2011 models do not use a conventional switch. Instead they use a position sensor kind of like a volume control. The BCM (body control module) uses that input to determine when the pedal is at rest and when it's moving, then figures out if the lights need to be turned on. The two lower brake lights that serve as turn signals are individually turned on or flashed by the BCM - there is no flasher.

Under the hood is the CHMSL relay. Its only function is to turn on the third brake light. It receives a signal from the BCM to the coil and the contacts supply the power to the light. There's a light blue wire that runs from there through the driver's door sill back to the light.

If you ride with your foot touching the brake pedal it could cause the issue you describe, but that is a rare occurrence these days. (I saw one guy in a pickup doing it Saturday.)

Chevrolet Customer Svc
05-16-2011, 10:54 AM
Dear nestle555,

How many miles do you have on your 2009 Malibu? Have you contacted your service advisor to pick their brain?

Michelle P., Chevrolet Customer Service

nestle555
05-16-2011, 08:23 PM
Thank you, for your responses. This Malibu is my wifes car, she mentioned today that the issue with all (3) brake lights coming on within 10 seconds after the brake pedal is released, has not happened in 2 days. We have had the vehicle at several different dealerships for a rattling sound that first occured at 20,000 miles without resolution. Also, we had the transaxle seal replaced (luckly under 100,000 mile powertrain warranty) at 35,000 miles. We love the gas mileage (6 speed) the vehicle gets, but with less than 55,000 miles on the vehicle and already experienced this many issues, not very impressed with the long term quality of this vehicle.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
05-17-2011, 10:26 AM
nestle555,

I would like to look into your situation in further detail. However, in order to do this I will some additional information from you. Please, check your private messages. Through a private message I will let you know that type of information that I will need.

Thank you,
Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

Metalman
07-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Nestle555,
Found some info on the web that older Malibus had a problem with a relay not making a good conection. Since I was having this problem too I figured what could it hurt to try this fix. I removed the relay(#49 I think) located next to the battery under the hood and reinserted it several times and also applied a little dielectric grease. So far so good, the problem hasn't recurred in the last three days. Try it, you won't do any damage and if it doesn't work you'll only be out $2.99 for a tube of grease.:)

greenman
07-10-2011, 09:19 PM
Nestle555,
Found some info on the web that older Malibus had a problem with a relay not making a good conection. Since I was having this problem too I figured what could it hurt to try this fix. I removed the relay(#49 I think) located next to the battery under the hood and reinserted it several times and also applied a little dielectric grease. So far so good, the problem hasn't recurred in the last three days. Try it, you won't do any damage and if it doesn't work you'll only be out $2.99 for a tube of grease.:)

New relays are not much more than that. Also, there are at least seven of those 8666 relays that are identical & interchangeable. Good way to test one is to swap it with another.

l024308
07-16-2011, 09:38 AM
I am also having this problem. When this happens the "Service Traction" and "service esc" is on the console. The trasction control triangle light is on the console. The car is in park and the brake lights are on. When the peddle is pressed the brake lights blink. When the peddle pressure is lifted the lights go off for about 2 seconds then come back on. Sounds like TSB 08-05-22-009 but 2009 Malibu is not listed in the TSB applications. I go to the dealer Monday. I will reply here after that.

Lgndryhr
07-16-2011, 04:36 PM
l024308 your problem sounds similar to what happened to me. Post (http://www.chevymalibuforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63699&postcount=2)

tbern
07-19-2011, 07:31 AM
I'm having the same issue with the brake light intermittently coming on. I had the pedal position sensor replaced but this is still an issue. Is cleaning & lubing the BCM the answer?

RalphP
07-19-2011, 07:57 AM
I'm having the same issue with the brake light intermittently coming on. I had the pedal position sensor replaced but this is still an issue. Is cleaning & lubing the BCM the answer?

Cleaning the contacts may be, but I don't really think electronics like much in the way of lubricant in them ...

RwP

MalibuKen
07-19-2011, 08:31 AM
I had the pedal position sensor replaced but this is still an issue. Is cleaning & lubing the BCM the answer?

The real answer is to get the shop that replaced the part to actually FIX THE PROBLEM........whatever that takes.

Likely that they just didn't get it calibrated right but it's possible that the new part is defective too.

greenman
07-19-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm having the same issue with the brake light intermittently coming on. I had the pedal position sensor replaced but this is still an issue. Is cleaning & lubing the BCM the answer?

Are all three stop lamps "intermittently coming on" (because the high-mount includes an additional circuit)?

tbern
07-20-2011, 06:57 AM
Yes. All three lamps are on when this problem occurs.

greenman
07-20-2011, 11:25 AM
Yes. All three lamps are on when this problem occurs.

After replacing the Brake Pedal Position sensor, the BCM must be recalibrated for the new sensor. If the issue is not solved, the problem may well be in the BCM or the harness. I think you'll need a dealer to sort it out.

l024308
07-20-2011, 10:19 PM
My car is now fixed. I stated in "Brake light adjustment" thread.
My car is fixed. I will quote the invoice.
"Customer states Traction Control light on and ESC light on and rear brake light on all the time. CK codes c0131 ABS/TCS system pressure circuit malfunction. Perform bulletin 08-05-22-009c to correct."
The TSB says --Disconnect the C2 or X2 connector, Add dielectric lubricant and reconnect the connector.
Check it out.... "http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/45h6u-2004-malibu-maxx-when-using-cruise-control-not-reset.html"

Dealer serviceman said mine was the second car this week to have this problem.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
07-21-2011, 11:06 AM
Dear tbern,

I have read about your situation with your Malibu and the brake lights. I would have to agree with greenman about getting the vehicle into the dealership for further information of what is going on. I completely understand if you do not want to do this, but it is always an option.

Sincerely,
Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

tbern
07-22-2011, 07:31 AM
I had it serviced at a local car shop so I'm not sure if they recalibrated the sensor. I did bring it into a dealership to deal with a recall and told them about the issue but they weren't able to duplicate the problem so they didn't try to guess as to what the problem might have been and replace unnecessary parts.

The few times I have seen it happen since then I've tried restarting the car and the brake lights are still on. If the car is left alone for several hours after driving with the brake lights the problem doesn't occur for a while after that. If I turn the car off and pump the brake a few times and then restart the car the brake lights turn off.

greenman
07-22-2011, 01:06 PM
I had it serviced at a local car shop so I'm not sure if they recalibrated the sensor.


I would have to wonder if they did as it requires a tech 2. Have you talked to them about it?

greenman
07-22-2011, 01:16 PM
I did bring it into a dealership to deal with a recall and told them about the issue but they weren't able to duplicate the problem so they didn't try to guess as to what the problem might have been and replace unnecessary parts.


Dealers almost always behave that way. Even with something as seriously life & death as the stop lamps. They are waiting for a dtc to tell them what to do. Intermittent electrically issues can take time to track down. If you have a way of capturing video do so & show that to them. I think you need to pursue the possibility that the BCM was not zeroed out for the replacement BPPS & the home position is just too close to the pedal top position.

Misbehaving stop lamps can create a very dangerous situation. Imagine traveling 75 down the freeway & having the stop lamps turning on & off. Please don't let this issue slide.

chevyguy8893
07-23-2011, 06:52 PM
The brake pedal position sensor does require the Tech II to recalibrate the sensor. I recently had one come in that only set codes and then I noticed the brake lights were on without me in the car. I went through and did the bulletin that l024308 listed above and it didn't act up again. What I did notice with the BPP sensor is that the two numbers for the rest position of the pedal were different, the numbers are supposed to be the same. It takes only a couple of minutes to recalibrate the sensor.

l024308
07-24-2011, 07:39 AM
This C2 connector is right under the Air Conditioner outlet. In this warm weather I think it gets condensation in it carroding the contacts causing all kinds of problems. Thus is the need for the dialectric grease.

tbern
07-27-2011, 05:56 PM
I was able to stop by a dealership while the car was exhibiting this problem. They calibrated the brake & BCM and it resolved the issue for now. They were even kind enough and didn't charge me for the calibration.

If this problem continues to persist I'll post to this thread as to what fixes were made.

Thnx for all of the suggestions.

greenman
07-27-2011, 06:29 PM
I was able to stop by a dealership while the car was exhibiting this problem. They calibrated the brake & BCM and it resolved the issue for now. They were even kind enough and didn't charge me for the calibration.

If this problem continues to persist I'll post to this thread as to what fixes were made.

Thnx for all of the suggestions.

Thanks for following up with the result. Most don't bother.

tbern
07-29-2011, 06:14 PM
24 hours later after calibration the Service ESC message came on along with the brakelights. Took it into the dealer and they cleaned the BCM (assume it was greasing up the C2 connector) according to document #2535089 (whatever that is) and replaced the brakelight. Before paying they uttered the infamous phrase, "We hope this fixed it".

I walked out of the dealership started the car and the brakelight was on. I walked back into the dealership and told them about it and it looks like I get to take it back in again while shelling out more $$$, since it's not under warranty, for them to continue to guess what the issue is. Drove two miles and the Service ESC warning lit back up.

4 trips to a garage/dealership to fix this problem and at least one more to go.

Having a hard time thinking happy thoughts about this

MalibuKen
07-29-2011, 07:44 PM
and it looks like I get to take it back in again while shelling out more $$$, since it's not under warranty, for them to continue to guess what the issue is.

Look, I don't mean this to be harsh or mean but..........
At some point, if you keep paying them for NO RESULTS, then you have to accept part of the blame.

In my book, they owe you a CREDIT for everything they have done up to now that was just wild guessing. If the last effort that fixes it is LESS than what they have already charged you.......then they owe YOU money.

This will never happen if you don't insist on it and they will just keep milking you until you get fed up. Then they will have your money and you will have NOTHING to show for it.

I think a call to GMs customer help line would be in order.....NOW.
Maybe a short discussion with the dealership OWNER would help too.
Note that does NOT mean a service advisor or "service manager" but the actual owner.

You are being screwed over; don't take it any more.

greenman
07-29-2011, 08:05 PM
24 hours later after calibration the Service ESC message came on along with the brakelights.


That is your first mention of seeing the Service ESC message. Is that a new symptom?

greenman
07-29-2011, 08:32 PM
l024308 your problem sounds similar to what happened to me. Post (http://www.chevymalibuforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63699&postcount=2)

The post you referred to never said if or how your issues were resolved. Do you have details?

tbern
07-29-2011, 09:08 PM
That is your first mention of seeing the Service ESC message. Is that a new symptom?

Yes the Service ESC message is a new symptom. This appeared 24 hrs after the calibration occurred which temporarily resolved the problem.

tbern
07-29-2011, 10:11 PM
I think a call to GMs customer help line would be in order.....NOW.

This has been done. They've opened a case regarding the vehicle and will be in contact with the dealership.

I'll also have a chat with the owner of the dealership about this to get this resolved.

greenman
07-29-2011, 10:20 PM
Yes the Service ESC message is a new symptom. This appeared 24 hrs after the calibration occurred which temporarily resolved the problem.

I have been researching this issue with the two symptoms ('Service ESC' & stop lamps ON by themselves) appearing together for awhile & I'll tell you it's hard to find anyone who's found a definitive solution. For some, brushing & applying dielectric grease to the BCM connector solves it but for many not. Ditto for the BPPS replacement with BCM recalibration. I have not read anywhere that replacing the BCM has cured this yet. But then again, I've not read that it has even been tried.

It's possible that the 'Service ESC' is simply a result of the electronic brake control module being confused by the message from the BCM that the brakes are applied while it also gets input from the wheel speed sensors that the wheels aren't slowing. I'll admit I'm a bit weak on the ABS system.

One thing that's true is this problem also affects the G6 & Aura & it is way too common. It is possibly a harness or connector issue. Wish I had better news.

Lgndryhr
07-29-2011, 10:30 PM
I've had this issued "fixed" four times. Replaced brake circuit, regreasing connector, resetting brake postion, and recalibrating sensor 3 times. I have a GM Case File open against my dealer and they are aware of every step of the way. I am calling them again tomorrow about how I was treated today. I wanted to trade my car for something else, my dealer's general manager failed at making me a deal worthwild for all my trouble and such, and stand by their service department. I am now car shopping else where and getting rid of this car before my 36k mile warranty runs out.

greenman
07-30-2011, 12:21 AM
I've had this issued "fixed" four times. Replaced brake circuit, re-greasing connector, resetting brake position, and recalibrating sensor 3 times. I have a GM Case File open against my dealer and they are aware of every step of the way. I am calling them again tomorrow about how I was treated today. I wanted to trade my car for something else, my dealer's general manager failed at making me a deal worthwhile for all my trouble and such, and stand by their service department. I am now car shopping else where and getting rid of this car before my 36k mile warranty runs out.

First, thank you very much for responding.
Holy crap. That is not what I wanted to hear at all. So if the car manufacturer can even solve this, what (7-letter word starting with F) chance do we, the car owners, have? It is a major safety issue running around with the stop lamps randomly coming ON or having them turn OFF when braking. Those are the makings of a VERY bad day.
They should be replacing the BCM in your vehicle & anything else that is even remotely connected to the stop lamp circuit. Or they could offer to buy your car & figure out what the H is going on with it. But that would only happen in a sane world. Where is that Chevy Customer Service Rep when you actually need him/her??????

DrivenDaily
07-30-2011, 05:22 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but I think the Feds ought to get involved. I'm not the kind that thinks laws need to be written for every little thing, but this isn't little. I think there should be a law that the brake lights are controlled by a simple switch. When it makes contact the lights turn on, and when the contact is broken they turn off. This business of using a volume control to tell the computer that something has moved and then the computer determining IF the lights need to be turned on is ludicrous at best. And as greenman says, it's dangerous. It's a bad day waiting to happen.

Lgndryhr
07-30-2011, 07:43 AM
Yea it is very dangerous and I explained that to him. I am a college student with two jobs. I do NOT have time to carry it into the service department every time it breaks. Let alone afford the costs after the warranty. I keep telling the service department to replace everything that is related to it. They won't because all they do is hook up a Tech 2 and read codes. They don't even look under the hood or check stuff their self. Cars are ridiculous with all the computers and modules used in them. I am calling GM Customer Service again today to report more things. I am also going to tell them to check out this forum and see I am not the only one who is experience these issues. There needs to be a recall or something.

The cruise feature is shut off when there is an issue or codes are being thrown. It is part of the BCM, brake circuit, etc. Also, when the car goes into a "safe mode" like state the cruise is one of the features turned off first. Also, when this is all on going your transmission will NOT shift properly and hunt for gears as well as hold a gear without you even having your foot on the throttle. This IS RIDICULOUS and I am going to let GM know this. I will not buy another Malibu EVER again. Every Malibu I've ever owned has had issues. I love them, but not at the expense of this. I am moving on to another GM vehicle, hopefully a Gen 5 Camaro. I am looking at a 1LT.

tbern
07-30-2011, 06:26 PM
I am moving on to another GM vehicle, hopefully a Gen 5 Camaro. I am looking at a 1LT.

You have a lot more faith in GM than I do. I realize that every vehicle has its set of problems but I'm quickly moving away from my considering a GM vehicle when I upgrade my family's primary vehicle.

Lgndryhr
07-30-2011, 10:51 PM
I grew up in a Chevy family and it's what I enjoy. I just got a bad car and decided I could not afford the inconvenience down the road. I did trade it today too. Got 16k for my Malibu. I am now a proud owner of a 2011 Camaro 1LT/RS.

greenman
07-30-2011, 11:38 PM
I am now a proud owner of a 2011 Camaro 1LT/RS.

NICE!

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/camaro/2011/

My first mod would have to be a built-in radar sniffer :D

I wanna check out that heads-up display in the 2LT. I have 'crazy love' for toys like that.

tbern
07-31-2011, 10:15 AM
I will admit that the new camaro is a pretty cool looking car. I probably would have bought one if there were a few more inches of headroom. I was just too tall to fit.

Lgndryhr
07-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Yea, I am 6'1" and I have a few inches to spare with seat 75% lowered. I've seen the HUD, it's pretty sick, but I don't need it. Thanks greenman!

tbern
08-05-2011, 07:28 AM
I took the car back in on Monday. They repaired the wire connector, reprogrammed the BCM, and also cleaned up the connectors again. This is the information that was put on the repair sheet. It included some N numbers (N6608, N4808) but I"m not sure if those mean anything. The dealership covered this work under warranty.

I haven't had the issues reoccur and I'm hoping that this has fixed it.

greenman
08-05-2011, 11:57 AM
I took the car back in on Monday. They repaired the wire connector, reprogrammed the BCM, and also cleaned up the connectors again. This is the information that was put on the repair sheet. It included some N numbers (N6608, N4808) but I"m not sure if those mean anything. The dealership covered this work under warranty.

I haven't had the issues reoccur and I'm hoping that this has fixed it.

Hope so.

Any idea which connector was "repaired"?

Now I wonder if there's a BCM update for this issue.

LTZgirl88
08-13-2011, 07:07 PM
I am having the same issue. The break lights will come on whenever they want, and wont come on when i break unless i slam the peddle down. My Malibu LTZ first started with the break light issue after i had put a used tire on the front. ( had a blow out and couldn't afford a new tire). Next came the Service ESC and Traction control lights, then the cruise control stopped working. I was told when they put the used tire on it may have shifted a sensor in the wheel? Well I had both front tires replaced yesterday and everything was perfect again! no lights, or break lights coming on for no reason. I thought that was it, until this morning on my way to work the break lights are at it again, and the service lights as well.
does anyone know if any of the above fixes really fix these problems?
If this is the BMC, how much is it to replace? Thank you in advance for any input. :) i love my Malibu but this is getting old!! :)

tbern
08-13-2011, 07:35 PM
Hope so.

Any idea which connector was "repaired"?

Now I wonder if there's a BCM update for this issue.

I don't know what connector was repaired. The glance at the detailed repair sheet I was able to steal a glance at indicated that there was a loose ground wire.

tbern
08-17-2011, 07:12 AM
If this is the BMC, how much is it to replace? Thank you in advance for any input. :) i love my Malibu but this is getting old!! :)

They didn't replace the BCM on my vehicle. They reprogrammed it and repaired a wire connector. Your issue sounds similar to mine so it might be related. As greenman has pointed out on several posts this is a safety issue with the brake light coming on. Now that your Service ESC and Traction warning is lit up it's a bigger issue.

I don't know how much it will cost but it may be worth contacting Chevy directly about this issue.

greenman
08-17-2011, 01:22 PM
I am having the same issue. The break lights will come on whenever they want, and wont come on when i break unless i slam the peddle down. My Malibu LTZ first started with the break light issue after i had put a used tire on the front. ( had a blow out and couldn't afford a new tire). Next came the Service ESC and Traction control lights, then the cruise control stopped working. I was told when they put the used tire on it may have shifted a sensor in the wheel? Well I had both front tires replaced yesterday and everything was perfect again! no lights, or break lights coming on for no reason. I thought that was it, until this morning on my way to work the break lights are at it again, and the service lights as well.
does anyone know if any of the above fixes really fix these problems?
If this is the BMC, how much is it to replace? Thank you in advance for any input. :) i love my Malibu but this is getting old!! :)

Has your bumper-to-bumper warranty expired? If so by how much?

TontoJ
08-22-2011, 08:46 PM
Since this is a much newer post than others i have found I thought I'd reply here as well. My 2009 Malibu started with this brake light issue tonight on my way to work. Not wanting to drive 30 miles to work at night with malfunctioning brake lights i came back home. Glad to see some information I can bring to the dealer. I'm really hoping this isn't going to cost me a ton.

Rodents
08-22-2011, 09:41 PM
Since this is a much newer post than others i have found I thought I'd reply here as well. My 2009 Malibu started with this brake light issue tonight on my way to work. Not wanting to drive 30 miles to work at night with malfunctioning brake lights i came back home. Glad to see some information I can bring to the dealer. I'm really hoping this isn't going to cost me a ton.

Since there's new interest in this thread, future visitors may want to print the bulletin that follows and keep it for reference.

#08-05-22-009C: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Cruise Control Inop, DTCs C0131/C0161/C0277 (Perform Repair Outlined) - (Sep 30, 2010)


Subject: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Extended Travel to Shift Out of Park, Cruise Control Inoperative, DTCs C0131, C0161 or C0277 Set (Perform Repair as Outlined)


Models: 2004-2008 Chevrolet Malibu, Malibu Maxx

2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic

2008-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

2005-2010 Pontiac G6

2007-2009 Saturn AURA




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-05-22-009B (Section 05 - Brakes).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment that intermittently the brake lights do not function correctly. Other symptoms may include extended pedal travel required to shift out of PARK, cruise control does not function correctly, and DTC C0131, C0161 and/or C0277 may be set.

Cause
The most likely cause of this condition is high resistance due to terminal fretting corrosion in the body control module (BCM) C2 or X2 connector (specifically pins 18, 31 and 59).

Correction
DO NOT replace the BCM for this condition. Disconnecting the C2 or X2 connector, adding dielectric lubricant and reconnecting the connector per the procedure below will correct the high resistance condition due to terminal fretting corrosion.

Remove the right side front floor console side trim panel to access to the Body Control Module (BCM).
Locate the C2 or X2 connector on the BCM.
Unlatch the connector and disconnect the connector from the BCM.
Apply dielectric lubricant (clear gel), GM P/N 12377900 (in Canada, use P/N 10953529) or equivalent, on all the connector pins (apply with a one-inch nylon bristle brush). This will treat the pins against fretting corrosion.
Reconnect the connector back on the BCM and re-latch. Wipe away any excess lubricant.
Reinstall the right side front floor console side trim panel.
Using the Tech 2, check that the BPPS ratio is equal to BPPS learned home when the brake pedal is not depressed.
If they are equal, the brake lamps should be operating correctly and no further steps are necessary.

If they are not equal, perform the Brake Pedal Position Sensor Calibration procedure in SI to complete the repair.

Verify proper operation of the brake lights. If incorrect, refer to SI and perform normal diagnostics.

Rodents
08-22-2011, 10:07 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but I think the Feds ought to get involved. I'm not the kind that thinks laws need to be written for every little thing, but this isn't little. I think there should be a law that the brake lights are controlled by a simple switch. When it makes contact the lights turn on, and when the contact is broken they turn off. This business of using a volume control to tell the computer that something has moved and then the computer determining IF the lights need to be turned on is ludicrous at best. And as greenman says, it's dangerous. It's a bad day waiting to happen.

By all means, everyone is entitled to their opinion. With that said, you need to take into consideration that there are already federally mandated systems on our cars that have added complexity to a vehicle and have made it necessary to not just use a simple on/off switch where we did years back but now use a variable sensor to input rate of apply, in this case the brake pedal. ESC or Electronic Stability Control has been mandated for all cars for the '12 model year forward. This is supposed to enhance safety and reduce fatalities. To make this system function, on board 'computers' need to know things that a few years ago weren't necessary. Among these things are rate of driver input to various functions, brakes and steering are two of those functions that not only need to report on or off but rate of change as well. As the Malibu was designed, there are two brake pedal postion sensors. One of the functions of the sensor is brake apply for brake light operation, to disengage cruise control, and the variable part of the sensor for rate of apply. If you have adjustable pedals, the brake pedal position sensor is also used for that feature.
You already have your government involvement, whether it's good or bad, you've got it. I agree, a simple switch would do just fine, in my opinion, a lot less government involvement might let us get back to a more simple time. I, for one, don't need someone (the government) to dictate so much of my life, I can screw it up fine all by myself, I don't need them to make it worse.

Now that I'm off the soapbox, here's description and operation of the stop lamps from GM service information.

The brake pedal position sensor is used to sense the action of the driver application of the brake pedal. The brake pedal position sensor provides an analog voltage signal that will increase as the brake pedal is applied. The body control module (BCM) provides a low reference signal and a 5 V reference voltage to the brake pedal position sensor. When the variable signal reaches a voltage threshold indicating the brakes have been applied, the BCM will apply battery positive voltage to the stop lamps, transmission control module (TCM), engine control module (ECM), and stop lamp relay coil side. When the stop lamp relay receives battery voltage from the BCM, the relay coil is energized and the stop lamp relay switch contacts close applying battery voltage through the STOP LP fuse to illuminate the center high mounted stop lamp (CHMSL).

Important: There are 2 Brake Pedal Position Sensors on the vehicle:

The Brake Pedal Position (BPP) Sensor is the sensor that is used to activate Stop Lamps, CHMSL and disable cruise. The BPP Sensor Calibration procedure used with this sensor has no effect on adjustable pedal function. The other brake pedal position sensor is used only for the adjustable pedal function. It is read directly by the adjustable pedal module (non-serial data) and no data is available on Tech 2 for it. Also the wiring to the adjustable pedal brake position sensor should be checked.

greenman
08-22-2011, 10:46 PM
Since there's new interest in this thread, future visitors may want to print the bulletin that follows and keep it for reference.


The problem is, for many folks, that fix either does not work or only helps temporarily. The Pontiac G6 actually had a recall in '09 for the '05 model year (limited VINs) using this fix. Part of the problem here is that a lot of posters never return with the results of whatever fix is tried, so we have limited feedback. I can tell you it's a pretty common issue in both this forum & the G6 forum & several different fixes have been tried.

TontoJ
08-23-2011, 03:36 AM
Thank you for the info Rodents. I have printed it off and will bring inform the dealer of this. If there are any changes to the fix I'll follow up here.

Thanks again!

Rodents
08-23-2011, 11:00 AM
The problem is, for many folks, that fix either does not work or only helps temporarily. The Pontiac G6 actually had a recall in '09 for the '05 model year (limited VINs) using this fix. Part of the problem here is that a lot of posters never return with the results of whatever fix is tried, so we have limited feedback. I can tell you it's a pretty common issue in both this forum & the G6 forum & several different fixes have been tried.

I've never seen one come back twice for the same issue after the bulletin is done, not saying it doesn't happen but I've never seen it yet. If the tech working on the car is on the ball, they'll do the BPP sensor learn, if not the BCM is looking at the old sensors learned position and at that point all bets are off. Some of the people here may have had that scenario play out. I ALWAYS start with any applicable bulletins before I go into further diagnostics.

tbern
08-23-2011, 06:08 PM
I've never seen one come back twice for the same issue after the bulletin is done, not saying it doesn't happen but I've never seen it yet. If the tech working on the car is on the ball, they'll do the BPP sensor learn, if not the BCM is looking at the old sensors learned position and at that point all bets are off. Some of the people here may have had that scenario play out. I ALWAYS start with any applicable bulletins before I go into further diagnostics.

In my case the dealership did perform the service bulletin but I can't say whether or not they redid the BPP sensor learn after performing the service bulletin. They had performed a calibration a couple of days prior to following the service bulletin.

The service bulletin alone didn't work for my Malibu and they had to repair a wire connector (didn't say which one on the warranty paperwork I received), did the service bulletin again, and reprogrammed the BCM and haven't had a problem for 3 weeks.

greenman
08-24-2011, 01:57 AM
In my case the dealership did perform the service bulletin but I can't say whether or not they redid the BPP sensor learn after performing the service bulletin. They had performed a calibration a couple of days prior to following the service bulletin.

The service bulletin alone didn't work for my Malibu and they had to repair a wire connector (didn't say which one on the warranty paperwork I received), did the service bulletin again, and reprogrammed the BCM and haven't had a problem for 3 weeks.

Tbern, thanks for your feedback. That's the only way a forum has of sorting out what actually works to resolve a problem. We could use a lot more of that. So, at least in your case, we know it involved a connector repair (granted that could mean of lot of different things) & a BCM reflash.

Rodents
08-24-2011, 08:29 PM
BCM is not reprogrammable as in updated calibrations. I looked at my car and in programming the BCM does not come up. The BCM is setup when it's replaced, there's option content you can select or de-select depending on the build of the car and there's two learn procedures. Might seem trivial but somewhere along the way I question whether the bulletin is being done correctly in the first place. The wire connector repair, does anyone's paperwork have a part number? Just curious.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
08-25-2011, 10:20 AM
Since this is a much newer post than others i have found I thought I'd reply here as well. My 2009 Malibu started with this brake light issue tonight on my way to work. Not wanting to drive 30 miles to work at night with malfunctioning brake lights i came back home. Glad to see some information I can bring to the dealer. I'm really hoping this isn't going to cost me a ton.

Keep me updated in regards to your progress at the dealer. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions in the meantime. Thank you.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.

TontoJ
09-01-2011, 09:31 AM
I was finally able to get my car in for service today. On top of the brake lights not working properly, while driving to the dealer the Service traction and Service ESC warnings started flashing.

Here is what my invoice states for the fix:

Com- BODY ELECTRICAL; Customer states brake lamps will come on when driving, when applying brakes the lights will go out. Also the service trac and esc lights are on.

Cau- Confirmed. Inspection found code in history C0131 for pressure control circuit malfunction.

Cor- Complete reprogramming of brake pedal calibration. test drove and concern did not duplicate. no codes reset. cleared code.

Now I'm just hoping this fix keeps and I do not need to bring it back in for this problem.

Thanks again for all the information everyone!

MalibuKen
09-01-2011, 11:32 AM
Now I'm just hoping this fix keeps and I do not need to bring it back in for this problem.


Going only from my feeble memory, the first attempt at fixing that problem seems to hold up long term in only about half the cases.

Please come back in 30-60 days and let us know which half you fall into. ;)

DrivenDaily
09-01-2011, 04:15 PM
Going only from my feeble memory, the first attempt at fixing that problem seems to hold up long term in only about half the cases.

Please come back in 30-60 days and let us know which half you fall into. ;)

As Larry the Cable Guy sez, "Now that's funny right there!"

Rodents
09-01-2011, 07:53 PM
When some of you see 'connector repair' as the fix you might assume the connector had an issue where there was a loose terminal, broken wire, some sort of physical issue, and I understand that assumption, but I can tell you why some of you see 'connector repair' on your invoice. The labor operation for the bulletin I'll paste below has BCM connector repair as it's title. The connector isn't taken apart, it's supposed to be worked back and forth by connecting and removing the connector a few times to clean away the fretting corrosion, then the tech is supposed to apply silicone dielectric grease to prevent it from happening again. If the connector isn't worked a few times, more like 8 to 10 times, to clean away the fretting, it comes right back. Just an attempt to explain why you see, what you see on your invoices.

#08-05-22-009C: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Cruise Control Inop, DTCs C0131/C0161/C0277 (Perform Repair Outlined) - (Sep 30, 2010)


Subject: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Extended Travel to Shift Out of Park, Cruise Control Inoperative, DTCs C0131, C0161 or C0277 Set (Perform Repair as Outlined)


Models: 2004-2008 Chevrolet Malibu, Malibu Maxx

2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic

2008-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

2005-2010 Pontiac G6

2007-2009 Saturn AURA




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-05-22-009B (Section 05 - Brakes).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment that intermittently the brake lights do not function correctly. Other symptoms may include extended pedal travel required to shift out of PARK, cruise control does not function correctly, and DTC C0131, C0161 and/or C0277 may be set.

Cause
The most likely cause of this condition is high resistance due to terminal fretting corrosion in the body control module (BCM) C2 or X2 connector (specifically pins 18, 31 and 59).

Correction
DO NOT replace the BCM for this condition. Disconnecting the C2 or X2 connector, adding dielectric lubricant and reconnecting the connector per the procedure below will correct the high resistance condition due to terminal fretting corrosion.

Remove the right side front floor console side trim panel to access to the Body Control Module (BCM).
Locate the C2 or X2 connector on the BCM.
Unlatch the connector and disconnect the connector from the BCM.
Apply dielectric lubricant (clear gel), GM P/N 12377900 (in Canada, use P/N 10953529) or equivalent, on all the connector pins (apply with a one-inch nylon bristle brush). This will treat the pins against fretting corrosion.
Reconnect the connector back on the BCM and re-latch. Wipe away any excess lubricant.
Reinstall the right side front floor console side trim panel.
Using the Tech 2, check that the BPPS ratio is equal to BPPS learned home when the brake pedal is not depressed.
• If they are equal, the brake lamps should be operating correctly and no further steps are necessary.

• If they are not equal, perform the Brake Pedal Position Sensor Calibration procedure in SI to complete the repair.

Verify proper operation of the brake lights. If incorrect, refer to SI and perform normal diagnostics.
Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

N9595*
BCM C2 or X2 Connector Repair
0.3 hr

* This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.

TontoJ
09-02-2011, 06:42 AM
Yeah that "fix" i posted from the dealer yesterday didnt even last 24 hours. Same problems already again this morning. trying to get it back in today. so now at the 6 month mark of owning this car its been in for the cruise control, tire pressure sensors, and now this stuff. this being my first chevy im not impressed and am really getting annoyed with it.

for comparison i drove my last car to 196,000+ miles without a single service issue outside scheduled maintenance. maybe im just spoiled with luck there, but averaging a trip in every 2 months for electronic issues is unacceptable to me.

MalibuKen
09-02-2011, 07:15 AM
maybe im just spoiled with luck there, but averaging a trip in every 2 months for electronic issues is unacceptable to me.

Yes and yes. I think BOTH of those things are true.

The "cruise control" thing and the "brake light" problem might be one in the same.

TontoJ
09-02-2011, 07:18 AM
Well the cruise control thing was separate and I was lucky enough to have it still under warranty when that occured. That was well before the brake light issue. Of course now the cruise control won't work, but I understand that's because it thinks the brakes are being used. When the brake lights aren't acting up the cruise works fine.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
09-02-2011, 03:27 PM
Yeah that "fix" i posted from the dealer yesterday didnt even last 24 hours. Same problems already again this morning. trying to get it back in today. so now at the 6 month mark of owning this car its been in for the cruise control, tire pressure sensors, and now this stuff. this being my first chevy im not impressed and am really getting annoyed with it.

for comparison i drove my last car to 196,000+ miles without a single service issue outside scheduled maintenance. maybe im just spoiled with luck there, but averaging a trip in every 2 months for electronic issues is unacceptable to me.

I would like to set up a case for you. In order to do so, I will need some more specific information from you. If you could please send me your full name, address, phone number, the VIN for the vehicle, current mileage, and dealer name via private message, I will be able to take further steps. Thank you again and I look forward to hearing from you.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.

DrivenDaily
09-03-2011, 05:47 AM
Well the cruise control thing was separate and I was lucky enough to have it still under warranty when that occured. That was well before the brake light issue. Of course now the cruise control won't work, but I understand that's because it thinks the brakes are being used. When the brake lights aren't acting up the cruise works fine.

On my '09 I used to have the cruise kick off or not engage every once in a while, but it did it less than 10 times in less than a month and then never did it again. I wonder if the brake lights were coming on or if it had that other issue. I told my service writer about it and they never did anything about it. That was in early '09.

Metalman
09-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Just an update. I had tried reseating relays and the BCM and these both seemed to work temporarily. When the problem recurred I finally bit the bullet and took the 09 malibu in to the dealer, even though I was sure it would be a nightmare involving multiple trips and hundreds of dollars.
Much to my surprise I was charged for one hour of diagnostic work and a loose wire in the BCM was repaired. Its been two weeks now and no problems! I may have to change my opinion of dealer service depts. They now rank above lawyers.

TontoJ
09-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Following up on my end as well. Turns out the dealer did in fact work through the TCB mentioned and added the gel mentioned in it, but the reason it didn't last long on my end was the tech did not reconnect everything properly. Took it back at the first available time and they checked everything only to find the connector vibrating loose. Thankfully they admitted the mistake on their end and did not charge me anything else. It's been a week today and the fix has held.

kjr0300
10-04-2011, 08:31 AM
Does anybody have a price on the work done by the dealer? I too have the exact same issues as described above (Brake lights stay on, service ESC on display). Just got back from the dealer and they are quoting me $1,104 for parts & labor. Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module. Beyond disappointed with this car since purchased, nothing but problems, any info on dealer pricing would be much appreciated.

TontoJ
10-05-2011, 07:38 AM
Does anybody have a price on the work done by the dealer? I too have the exact same issues as described above (Brake lights stay on, service ESC on display). Just got back from the dealer and they are quoting me $1,104 for parts & labor. Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module. Beyond disappointed with this car since purchased, nothing but problems, any info on dealer pricing would be much appreciated.

I can't speak to the issues going on in your vehicle, but for mine nothing needed to actually be replaced. They worked the TCB mentioned in the thread by applying the gel to the connector and reconnecting. My charges in full came out to about 3/4 of an hour of work, diagnosis time included in that, and my total out the door was $60.

kjr0300
10-05-2011, 02:28 PM
Thanks TontoJ, that's helpful. I'm a bit skeptical of this dealer, especially when my issue is sporadic at best. I also don't want to take it to another dealer and be charged another $120 just for them to tell me "what's wrong" with the car. I think this might be worse than finding out I had to take off my entire front bumper to change by headlights.

greenman
10-05-2011, 04:27 PM
...Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module.

Now that is just plain throwing parts at the problem because they have no idea what the problem is.

tbern
10-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Does anybody have a price on the work done by the dealer? I too have the exact same issues as described above (Brake lights stay on, service ESC on display). Just got back from the dealer and they are quoting me $1,104 for parts & labor. Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module. Beyond disappointed with this car since purchased, nothing but problems, any info on dealer pricing would be much appreciated.

This sounds exactly like the problem I had. I ended up contacting GM customer service and even though my car was out of warranty the dealership was kind enough to cover the repairs. I don't know if that was a result of my direct complaint to GM or something else. The explanation for the 'warranty' work that was done on my car was that they performed the service bulletin (grease on the connector) (ended up doing it 2x since the 1st time it didn't work) and 'reprogrammed the BCM'. I'm not aware of the dealership replacing the traction control switch or the BCM. An independent garage had replaced the brake switch with no success. Is the dealership you're working with aware of the TSB for the brake light issue?

kjr0300
10-08-2011, 10:52 AM
This sounds exactly like the problem I had. I ended up contacting GM customer service and even though my car was out of warranty the dealership was kind enough to cover the repairs. I don't know if that was a result of my direct complaint to GM or something else. The explanation for the 'warranty' work that was done on my car was that they performed the service bulletin (grease on the connector) (ended up doing it 2x since the 1st time it didn't work) and 'reprogrammed the BCM'. I'm not aware of the dealership replacing the traction control switch or the BCM. An independent garage had replaced the brake switch with no success. Is the dealership you're working with aware of the TSB for the brake light issue?

When I took my car to the dealer I mentioned that there was a TSB out there, he simply said "we will investigate". My take is the technician is simply looking at codes and recommending parts, no real "investigation" is taking place. As greenman's noted: throwing parts at the issue.

I called Chevy customer service at 800-222-1020. Waiting on a response (likely Monday) from them. The gentleman I spoke to was surprised when I mentioned the quoted price as he seems to be familiar with the issue. He is going to contact the service department at the dealer I went to and get back to me. He wants to confirm what I told him, and again, "investigate the issue". Still, I am not very confident in getting this issue resolved at this point.

kjr0300
10-10-2011, 03:04 PM
Update: I received a call back from Chevy/GM Customer service today. The rep simply called the dealer and confirmed what I had told him, nothing more. He explained the parts and price, which I already knew, and stated that there was nothing more that could be done. I posed the question "what happens if paying $1,200 does not fix the issue"...he simply said those parts would be covered by a 10K mile warranty. After he said this, he realized "does not fix the issue" was point and had further response for me, so after a few more minutes of back and forth, I kindly thanked him (for nothing) and hung up.

Highly disappointed with customer service and the Chevy brand. Still trying to determine what my options are, but it seems like I'll have to go ahead and get the work done, or continue to drive around with my brake lights on and the message on the dash.

MalibuKen
10-10-2011, 05:08 PM
Highly disappointed with customer service and the Chevy brand. Still trying to determine what my options are,

Having brake lights that don't work right is a safety hazzard........and having to pay $1200 to get them fixed is outrageous. They should be able to isolate the problem to a SINGLE defective part and replace that.

I suggest that you contact the NTSB, National Transportation Safety Board, and tell the dealer and your "corporate contact" that you are doing that.

Maybe this has been asked before but how far out of warranty are you ??

If there is another GM dealer anywhere close by (any brand), getting a second opinoin might be helpful.

DrivenDaily
10-11-2011, 05:08 AM
If you're handy at all you can find a way to put a contact switch on the pedal and wire your own brake light circuit. Just be sure it works flawlessly or you're back in the same boat.

One version would be to use a magnetic switch that controls a relay. That way you might be able to mimic the signals that the BCM is looking for and then you wouldn't have to rewire the freakin' thing. The magnet would mount to the pedal and the reed switch would mount in close proximity so it would switch as the magnet moves away from it.

Another way would be to find a way to mount some kind of "L" bracket to hold a "standard" brake light switch so the pedal arm contacts it to shut them off and moves away to turn them on. Again, you could either mimic the BPPS or rewire the whole system.

If there's some way you can scream to the NTSB and get them to see how lame it is to have a computer calculate whether to turn the lights on or off (and getting it wrong) then that could be the start of a move to make brake lights a simple circuit that works like it is expected to work: all the time!

kjr0300
10-11-2011, 05:39 AM
Having brake lights that don't work right is a safety hazzard........and having to pay $1200 to get them fixed is outrageous. They should be able to isolate the problem to a SINGLE defective part and replace that.

I suggest that you contact the NTSB, National Transportation Safety Board, and tell the dealer and your "corporate contact" that you are doing that.

Maybe this has been asked before but how far out of warranty are you ??

If there is another GM dealer anywhere close by (any brand), getting a second opinoin might be helpful.

Ken, I'm just over 90K miles unfortunately. I am leaning towards a second opinion, just sucks I have to pay another $125 for them to tell me what's wrong. :mad:

MalibuKen
10-11-2011, 08:32 AM
just sucks I have to pay another $125 for them to tell me what's wrong. :mad:

Understand. This might seem like a nit-picky point......but it really isn't.
Your problem is not with pinpointing what is wrong......but with the list of parts and labor they seem to think is necessary to fix it.

Your first shop seems to think that they need to change EVERY part even remotely associated with the circuit in question.........and I think that is lazy and just plain dis-respectful to you as a customer.

AND it is possible that the second shop might wave or reduce the "diagnostic charge" if they know the whole story and suspect that they might lure in a new customer in the process.

Rodents
10-11-2011, 06:43 PM
Does anybody have a price on the work done by the dealer? I too have the exact same issues as described above (Brake lights stay on, service ESC on display). Just got back from the dealer and they are quoting me $1,104 for parts & labor. Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module. Beyond disappointed with this car since purchased, nothing but problems, any info on dealer pricing would be much appreciated.

Do you have any records of what codes were stored when the problem occured? I get the idea as well that this service department is just throwing parts at it. Do you know if the bulletin was ever properly performed? If not, you really should start there, it's really pretty easy to do yourself if you have some mechanical ability. If not, an independent shop you know does good work can do it as well. I can send you a copy of the bulletin or if you look around on the forum, it's been posted at least a few times already. Weigh your options, gamble on an 1100 dollar shotgun approach, spend a hundred bucks and change for a second opinion or do the bulletin and see what that gets you. Codes would be good here to make sure we're dealing with the same issue the bulletin does but it's fairly common for the fretting corrosion to cause problems like it seems you have. Just did one today actually, took maybe 20 minutes tops and that was taking the time to clean up each terminal of the X2 BCM connector with a terminal test probe.

kjr0300
10-12-2011, 08:37 AM
Do you have any records of what codes were stored when the problem occured? I get the idea as well that this service department is just throwing parts at it. Do you know if the bulletin was ever properly performed? If not, you really should start there, it's really pretty easy to do yourself if you have some mechanical ability. If not, an independent shop you know does good work can do it as well. I can send you a copy of the bulletin or if you look around on the forum, it's been posted at least a few times already. Weigh your options, gamble on an 1100 dollar shotgun approach, spend a hundred bucks and change for a second opinion or do the bulletin and see what that gets you. Codes would be good here to make sure we're dealing with the same issue the bulletin does but it's fairly common for the fretting corrosion to cause problems like it seems you have. Just did one today actually, took maybe 20 minutes tops and that was taking the time to clean up each terminal of the X2 BCM connector with a terminal test probe.

Here are the codes that were included in the diagnostic:
C0131: EBCM & Valve Failure
C0561: Traction Control Switch Failure
C0899: Brake Switch Failure

I'd like to take a shot at fixing this myself, and I have a local mechanic that I trust who could lend a hand if needed, but I'm pretty good with my hands.

Just a note, I drove home from work last night and had no issue with my brake lights, they worked fine for the whole ride which is roughly 25 minutes on both highway and local roads. I'm sure the issue will repeat, but this causes me believe there's an easier fix.

Can you walk me through the steps you took to fix?

DrivenDaily
10-13-2011, 05:08 AM
May I suggest a possible mod that would help you? If you put a light where you can see it, even if just temporarily until you fix your issue, you'll have an indicator that will tell you immediately when/if your brake lights decide to do their own thing.

I like knowing what is going on with my car without having to guess. I can't tell by the dash if the parking lights are on or not, and I can rarely tell when the brake lights are lit except at night. On my '09 (traded) I had a pair of small, dim LEDs I used. On each side below the speedo there is a plastic filler and I installed one in each. One was for the brakes (used the CHMSL) and the other was for fogs (2LT without factory fogs). But I still never knew when the parking lights were on.

In my '11 I have started to make some of the same mods. In my overhead console I have an LED for the parking lights. It lets me know when they're on and I find it useful during the day when I'm not sure if I have headlights or DRLs burning. (My DRLs are converted from lows to turns.)

Next to the factory fog switch is a filler panel. Currently I have a small LED to indicate the CHMSL which I have hooked up to a pulser (see link in sig) so I can program it. I will be moving it to the filler under the speedo like in my '09, partly because that's where I wanted to put it and partly because the steering wheel hides it unless I move my hand to my lap. I'll also add another one for the fogs since the factory switch is completely hidden as well.

tbern
10-16-2011, 07:55 PM
It's hard to gauge how big of a problem the random brake light issue is. Does anyone know what it takes for a car manufacturer to do a recall on a problem like this? It seems that it's a common enough issue that a TSB exists but it's not bad enough for a recall to be done.

greenman
10-16-2011, 08:28 PM
I like knowing what is going on with my car without having to guess. I can't tell by the dash if the parking lights are on or not, and I can rarely tell when the brake lights are lit except at night. On my '09 (traded) I had a pair of small, dim LEDs I used. On each side below the speedo there is a plastic filler and I installed one in each. One was for the brakes (used the CHMSL) and the other was for fogs (2LT without factory fogs). But I still never knew when the parking lights were on.

In my '11 I have started to make some of the same mods. In my overhead console I have an LED for the parking lights. It lets me know when they're on and I find it useful during the day when I'm not sure if I have headlights or DRLs burning. (My DRLs are converted from lows to turns.)

Next to the factory fog switch is a filler panel. Currently I have a small LED to indicate the CHMSL which I have hooked up to a pulser (see link in sig) so I can program it. I will be moving it to the filler under the speedo like in my '09, partly because that's where I wanted to put it and partly because the steering wheel hides it unless I move my hand to my lap. I'll also add another one for the fogs since the factory switch is completely hidden as well.

Those are some great ideas! Especially like putting them in the IPC. What led bezels did you use? Black, chrome or what? I've only seen chrome.

DrivenDaily
10-16-2011, 10:08 PM
I got the little red LEDs from Radio Shack that have the resistor included so you can hook them up to 12V without burning them up. They have no bezel and are quite low in candlepower. Keeps them from burning up your eyes in the dark but they're still visible in the daytime. They're not big at all - about 1/8" diameter.

RalphP
10-16-2011, 10:22 PM
I got the little red LEDs from Radio Shack that have the resistor included so you can hook them up to 12V without burning them up. They have no bezel and are quite low in candlepower. Keeps them from burning up your eyes in the dark but they're still visible in the daytime. They're not big at all - about 1/8" diameter.

To be precise - a T1 sized, 3mm diameter.

Which is pretty darn close to 1/8", BTW.

RwP

DrivenDaily
10-17-2011, 04:55 AM
I was a little too tired at midnight to go looking, but this morning I found the packet. It is

PN 276-0084
Red
LED Assembly
12VDC 15mA 50mcd

I guess I was a little off with the size. The lens is 1/4" (6mm) and it takes a hole 13/64" (5.16mm) to mount it. But it's still a lot smaller than any other I've seen and barely rises above the surface.
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2160471w345.jpg

Picture link to Radio Shack website (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062561#)

Chevrolet Customer Svc
10-17-2011, 03:13 PM
@tbern, are you experiencing this with your 2009 Malibu?

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

greenman
10-17-2011, 08:26 PM
I was a little too tired at midnight to go looking, but this morning I found the packet. It is

PN 276-0084
Red
LED Assembly
12VDC 15mA 50mcd

I guess I was a little off with the size. The lens is 1/4" (6mm) and it takes a hole 13/64" (5.16mm) to mount it. But it's still a lot smaller than any other I've seen and barely rises above the surface.

Picture link to Radio Shack website (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062561#)

Thanks for that lead. I never think to check the shack dot com much anymore. I like those lamps.

DrivenDaily
10-17-2011, 10:31 PM
Ralph,
Did you notice how slyly I mentioned that "I was a little off"? Only by a magnitude of double! Oh well, I guess my rememberer works real good, but my recallerer needs some polish.

So if my description had been correct then a 3mm T1 would have been the right item. Sorry to steer ya down the wrong path.

RalphP
10-18-2011, 06:02 AM
Ralph,
Did you notice how slyly I mentioned that "I was a little off"? Only by a magnitude of double! Oh well, I guess my rememberer works real good, but my recallerer needs some polish.

So if my description had been correct then a 3mm T1 would have been the right item. Sorry to steer ya down the wrong path.

Yah. You were probably right to begin with.

I've used a lot of the LiteOn T1 LEDs with the 12V dropping resistor on the die in things I've built - so I assumed that was what you were talking bout.

I was of course mistaken (as people who assume do. Won't go into what that word means ... )

RwP

tbern
10-18-2011, 08:13 AM
@tbern, are you experiencing this with your 2009 Malibu?

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

I did experience this problem (along with the Service ESC error) and made several frustrating trips to a dealership, and one to an independent garage, before this was resolved. I haven't seen this issue crop up since early August.

I'm not sure how common this problem is but it seems to be common enough to have a TSB. It turned out to be a potentially dangerous situation because I did experience times where I'd be able to set the cruise control in a highway use situation and use it for a long period of time and then the cruise control would shut off at a random time. After that I wouldn't be able to set the cruise control for the remainder of my trip. When I got to a stopping point I'd check the rear brake light and it would be on.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
10-19-2011, 08:40 AM
@tbern, thank you for the additional information about the situation that you had experienced with your Malibu. If I am understanding your post correctly, it didn't get resolved by a dealership, but by an independent shop?

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

tbern
10-21-2011, 10:05 AM
@tbern, thank you for the additional information about the situation that you had experienced with your Malibu. If I am understanding your post correctly, it didn't get resolved by a dealership, but by an independent shop?

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

The dealership was able to fix the problem after the third time I took it in to them.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
10-24-2011, 07:46 AM
@tbern, great!!! Thank you!!!

Please, keep in mind that you can contact me with comments, questions and/or concerns in the future.

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

Dean100
02-23-2012, 02:49 PM
Recently purchased a used 2009 Malibu LS and have found that the brake lights are on when they are supposed to be off.

After reading the forum for a bit, it is obvious that this is a known and wide spread problem amongst several GM products.

It absolutely amazes me that there has not been a recall to fix this, as it is a major safety issue.

Sure wish I had known about this before I bought the car. :mad:

DrivenDaily
02-23-2012, 05:45 PM
How recent? It's a safety issue that your seller might be willing to fix, since they're probably a responsible business citizen.

A work-around fix would be to bypass the BCM entirely, but that would also mean having to do something for the turn signals. If mine ever goes out that's probably what I'll do. I think it's a crock to have a computer have to "think" about whether to turn the lights on or off when those lights are such an important safety device.

howitzer87
03-04-2012, 10:49 PM
This is now the 2nd Malibu Ive owned with this same problem (esc/traction Service light) and brake lights staying on which causes cruise control not to function.
I traded my first 2008 malibu for a newer 2009 to get back under warranty since I was not sure the problem was fixed.
Now my 2009 ltz was in the shop friday for this problem and the chevy dealer told me "it was fixed" I was told a brake switch was bad.
That night same problems are back. I will talk to the dealer tomorrow and take it in soon as i can run it there when the problem is occuring, since many of you know it resets once the car is shut off.
Very frustrated with this problem especially now on my 2nd malibu.:mad:
Glad it happened now though....warranty runs out in 1 month...

DrivenDaily
03-05-2012, 03:38 AM
I suffered from something similar on my '11 late last year. I believe it was weather related because it rained about 2" in one hour and the temps dropped from over 90* to just over 70* during that time. The ESC was inactive, TC was inactive, a message said Service ESC and another said Reduced Power. It felt like I had less than 3 cylinders.

As I drove the power returned by the time I got home, and the next morning the Service ESC finally cleared. I dropped it off for service and they couldn't find anything. Hmmm, an ESC error without a code being stored in memory??? Oh well.

That weekend I was doing some mods to my car and ended up unplugging the BCM, which may have just "fixed" it. Sometimes fretting occurs on cars with low voltage computer-level circuits, and these circuits are more susceptible to degraded connections than higher-voltage or -amperage circuits are. I figured that I had just a little fretting and when the weather cooled so quickly it was attracted to the corrosion and it was just too much until the humidity levels fell. Haven't had an issue since.

You might want to try it for yourself. Disconnect the negative battery cable, then go under the front right console and remove the BCM plug a few times. That action will clean the terminal contacts and just might relieve you of the condition.

BTW, the reason for removing the negative battery cable and not the positive is from suggestions to car owners decades ago. If you're working on the battery and your wrench comes into contact with ground you won't spark or weld it if you're working on the negative, but that risk is much greater if you're working on the positive. Regardless of which one you choose, use due caution.

Dean100
03-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Recently purchased a used 2009 Malibu LS and have found that the brake lights are on when they are supposed to be off.

After reading the forum for a bit, it is obvious that this is a known and wide spread problem amongst several GM products.

It absolutely amazes me that there has not been a recall to fix this, as it is a major safety issue.

Sure wish I had known about this before I bought the car. :mad:

Just wanted to update everyone on what took place with my brake light problem. I contacted the used car dealer who I purchased the car from and he told me to bring the car back to him and he would have it fixed. The car has now been fixed (not exactly sure what they did to repair it). But it didn't cost me anything.

I will be keeping an eye on this in the future as this seems to be a very
common problem. In fact, I was driving down the freeway just the other day and spotted a Malibu going 70 mph with the brake lights on for miles.

howitzer87
03-05-2012, 10:42 PM
Thanks for the suggestion.. I will keep that in mind....Dropped off my Malibu today to the dealership. Service Manager assured me the problem will be resolved under warranty.."No Matter how long it takes".
They gave me a "loaner" car...funny it was a 2009 Malibu...:) until they get mine fixed.
I will update when I get my car back...

MrRichRod
03-06-2012, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the suggestion.. I will keep that in mind....Dropped off my Malibu today to the dealership. Service Manager assured me the problem will be resolved under warranty.."No Matter how long it takes".
They gave me a "loaner" car...funny it was a 2009 Malibu...:) until they get mine fixed.
I will update when I get my car back...

If possible, do us a favor and keep us updated on what they do to resolve the problem. (Assuming they do resolve it) This is a big help for those troubleshooting their own problems.

Kudos on the loaner!! Let them take their time, you're driving their car now!! :)

DrivenDaily
03-06-2012, 05:53 AM
Usually it is resolved with a BPP (brake pedal position) sensor recalibration. If you (or other readers) haven't read all that goes on to get the brake lights to light, the BPP is not a switch, it's a volume control (rheostat). The BCM has to be programmed to "see" when the BPP is at rest ("off") or has moved far enough or fast enough ("on") before it can decide to turn them on or off. If it has lost its programming it could result in what was observed - a vehicle making normal progress at freeway speed with the brake lights on, but no lights when the pedal is pressed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Feds ought to make a law that simply states a brake light must be energized with an actual contact switch that directly turns the brake lights on, or does so through a turn signal switch that cancels only one at a time and/or an emergency switch that cancels both but only to cause them to flash. It's a freakin' safety item that just needs to work, like they have for decades!

I believe the engineers came up with the BPP solution when they had moveable pedals, but since those were available on 2008 models only it should have been discarded like the lousy solution it is.

If mine ever fails outside of warranty I'll wire in a permanent solution that bypasses the BPP entirely and I'll never have that issue again.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
03-06-2012, 07:05 AM
@howitzer87, thank you for sharing the update in regards to the brake lights on your 2009 Malibu. I am so happy to read that you have been provided alternative transportation as they get to the bottom of this. I look forward to reading what the solution is.

Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service

Aztek
08-25-2012, 03:35 PM
Im glad im not the only one.. this happened to me a few days ago but last night it got worse... they would come on and stay on and when i lightly press the pedal the light goes out but the brake lights dont work at all.. unless i forced the pedal down all the way as if i were at a complete stop so they aren't working when im braking.

and its been doing that to me alot.. and its almost caused me to get rear ended like 3 times already...

Aztek
08-25-2012, 03:39 PM
howitzer how did it go? and what did they change or fix.. i found another site with the same issues listed and one of the guys on there said the dealer switched his brakelight switch and the BCM... and now its fixed..

greenman
08-25-2012, 05:09 PM
Im glad im not the only one.. this happened to me a few days ago but last night it got worse... they would come on and stay on and when i lightly press the pedal the light goes out but the brake lights dont work at all.. unless i forced the pedal down all the way as if i were at a complete stop so they aren't working when im braking.

and its been doing that to me alot.. and its almost caused me to get rear ended like 3 times already...

This has to be one of the most common issues in the malibu-g6-aura family (as well as many other GM vehicles). I'd start with the the BCM C2 connector cleaning as called for by GM bulletin #08-05-22-009A (already posted in this long thread).

I direct you to this youtube video featuring a G6 (the Malibu, G6 & Aura are sisters & largely identical under the superficial stuff):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7RA7Mc_tLo

But read this FIRST:

I recommend that you disconnect the battery BEFORE removing any BCM connector. Only reconnect the battery after all BCM connectors are reinstalled.

The guy in the video has it partially correct. The connector that is pertinent to the brake pedal position sensor circuit is the C2/X2 connector (it's marked J2 on the BCM). It is the one at the top & mounted horizontally. Release the lock, pull the connector straight off (avoid removing it at an angle) & reseat it. Pull & reseat it a few more times. This abrading of the contact surfaces is actually what cleans the oxidation from the mating surfaces of the metal terminals. Another (& perhaps more effective) option is using Deoxit cleaner spray for electrical contacts (electronic techs will know what this is). Then apply the dielectric silicone gel. The gel will help retard future oxidation from developing by displacing oxygen. Since you are in there already, you may also want to do the C1/X1 connector (marked J1 on the BCM) (the one he shows doing in the video) similarly.

Aztek
08-26-2012, 03:27 PM
ahh ok ima have to do that 2morro when im off.. see it is intermittent cuz last night it didnt do and today it has not done it either (knock on wood)

i didnt have the sensor in stock at my location so i called an had it at another store so after i closed my store up i went there and got it. its normally 29.99 with a lifetime warranty...

in order to find it i had to call Napa AP and use their part number to cross reference to mine.. theirs was 24.99 with 90 day warranty.. so i cross referenced it and the part number through autozone is SU9456, because it will not pop up or show if u look it up by vehicle make and model i kno it didnt work for mine..

i have not put it in yet becuzz the problem did go away for now.. cuz i kno it comes back at very random times... but i have it on stand by just incase lol.. when i get a chance i will take a photo of the part and post

RalphP
08-26-2012, 04:46 PM
Bad news, Aztek - swapping the brake position sensor won't help until you reset the BCM to work with it properly, which may take a Tech II scan tool (i.e., a dealer visit ANYWAY).

RwP

greenman
08-26-2012, 05:09 PM
Bad news, Aztek - swapping the brake position sensor won't help until you reset the BCM to work with it properly, which may take a Tech II scan tool (i.e., a dealer visit ANYWAY).

RwP

A visit & about 100 bucks I'd imagine. What's worse, it may solve nothing. Which is why I would start by cleaning those BCM connector terminals:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/GM-Chevrolet-Malibu-Brake-Pedal-Off-Tail-Lights-On-Repair-Guide/
.........................................

greenman
08-26-2012, 05:47 PM
The BPP sensor circuit terminals to focus on cleaning on BCM C2 are 18 (5v ref), 31 (BPP sensor signal) & 59 (Low ref). Here is the C2 connector pinout:


http://www.chevymalibuforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2427&stc=1&d=1346024479

greenman
08-27-2012, 02:16 AM
Here's an article that fills in some of the details of this issue if I haven't already bored you to tears:

http://www.autoinc.org/archives/2010/may2010/techtotech.htm

DrivenDaily
08-27-2012, 06:14 AM
I think I now know why my cruise turned off several times in my '09. The dealer didn't have a clue.

Has never happened in my '11 and I have about 6000 more miles on it than when I traded my '09.

Aztek
08-27-2012, 08:28 AM
Haha yes the cruise control kills out cuz of that lol... Took me a minute to figure it out too... The only way I figured it out was driving back to Houston from Dallas when it was really dark and I noticed my brake lights were on and I didn't touch them

greenman
08-27-2012, 01:27 PM
I think I now know why my cruise turned off several times in my '09. The dealer didn't have a clue.

Has never happened in my '11 and I have about 6000 more miles on it than when I traded my '09.

The bulletin includes MY '11 (IDK if it's been extended to MY '12 now).

Hopefully, it's been corrected in Gen 8 but IDK.

Apparently, there haven't been enough rear-end accidents reported yet for the NTSB to provoke another safety recall.

daveyio87
08-27-2012, 08:02 PM
connector 2 of the bcm is the culprit, remove it, check for any corrosion, use a magnifying glass, and apply a very light coating of dielectric grease to the connector and plug it in. i had a problem with the esc light randomly coming on when it was wet and in slushy weather, this fixed the problem, still wondering how that would fix it seeing how the bcm is inside the vehicle.

kjr0300
09-16-2012, 05:24 PM
Figured I would circle back and give an update. A while back I posted about my break light issue as well, being quoted $1200 to fix from the Chevy dealer, and details of all error codes.

Finally had some time this afternoon, disconnected the battery, found the BCM on the passenger side, used a little dielectric lube on the 2 connector pins, and the lights are working perfectly so far. Will keep you all posted...

btw...took me all of 10 minutes and $4 for lube from autozone

Malibu2lt
10-31-2012, 07:39 PM
I had this problem about 13 months ago. Took my Malibu to the dealer, they charged me $60.00 to slap three dollars worth of greese on the BCM connector. The problem has returned. I disconnected to connector several times and reconnected it. It seems to have solved the issue for now. I think Chevy should fix all these issues a their cost. They know about it. A company service bulletin states a temporary fix. It is a serious safety issue.

greenman
10-31-2012, 08:40 PM
I think Chevy should fix all these issues a their cost. They know about it. A company service bulletin states a temporary fix. It is a serious safety issue.

I agree completely.

I'm waiting to hear if they have corrected the problem in the BCMs for Gen 8.

ElderNurse
01-03-2013, 12:23 AM
I am having the same issue with my 2009 Malibu LTZ and I appreciate the info. I will be taking this info and running with it. Thanks you all!

LanCity
05-02-2014, 06:04 PM
Recently fought this issue for a year to no avail... Solution was to recalibrate the brake switch. First month without an occurrence in over 2 years.

tbern
08-02-2014, 10:32 AM
FWIW, recall 13036 has been issued for this defect. It's unfortunate that I, and probably many of you, had to spend money on this issue since the dealership didn't know how to deal with the problem. I'd love to get my money back on this.

Drunken Elvis
08-02-2014, 10:56 AM
You can. Do you have the bill?
The Dealer should have a record of it.
Contact G.M. if necessary.

Chevrolet Customer Svc
08-02-2014, 02:46 PM
Hi tbern,

I will be sending you a private message in regard to your concern. We look forward to hearing back from you!

Kristen A.
Chevrolet Customer Care