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2000 Chevy Malibu 3.1 Stalling/Starting Issue

53K views 39 replies 7 participants last post by  Rodents 
#1 ·
I have a 2000 Chevy Malibu with a 3.1 with about 164k Miles on it. The other day I was pulling up to a stop sign and when I tried to take off again, I realized that it had died. I dropped it into nuetral, restarted it with no troubles, and took off. Since that time, I can't start it the same way anymore. If I just put the key in and immediately crank it, it will turn and never start. However, if I turn the key to run and let it sit for about 3-5 seconds and then crank it, it will start fine.

It has died on me two other times since then. The two most recent times it has died, I have had my foot on the gas. I wasn't flooring it, but just holding a steady speed when it died. I have replaced the fuel filter, PCV Valve, and I checked the fuel pressure, which is holding steady at about 44 psi when the key is turned to run. The Air Filter is clean and new, and the battery is brand new.

I have noticed is that sometimes when I pull up to a stop sign first thing in the morning, I can see my lights dim sometimes like it's lost most of it's power. However, once it's warm it won't really do this, and it doesn't always do this when it's cold. Only occasionally will this happen.

The only other issue I have found is that when it is sitting idling, the engine will run with a kind of pulse or surging high low high low in rapid succession instead of running at a steady pace.

I have no engine codes and the check engine light has never come on during this time period where this has started happening.
 
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#2 ·
just bought a 2000 Chevy Malibu V6 3.1 with similar issues it seems to be running lean but thankfully has not turned off. You should start by doing a complete tune up. New spark plugs and wires are a must. It is very important on idle that you correctly gap the plugs, have you already replaced the fuel filter, air filter and pcv valve?
 
#3 ·
Yea, I mentioned in the original post that I have replaced the fuel filter and PCV Valve and the Air Filter is clean. I did a full tune up about 70-80k miles ago and it doesn't have any trouble with acceleration and no real hesitation when driving.

I also just checked my ignition switch to see if when I jiggle the keys, it will shut itself off, but that wasn't it either.
 
#4 ·
I had similar once. My fuel pump (THAT one!) was failing, and it could not pump enough fuel, even though on key on engine off it had plenty of pressure (as soon as the motor started running, it'd drop to about 21 to 23 ... and if you popped the throttle body, it'd drop right down to 5 about when the car stalled.)

I'd do a pressure check while the car is running.

To do this, take a long hose on the pressure gauge and tape it to the windshield, making sure the hose isn't crimped too tight when you shut the hood on it, and drive around the neighborhood.

Use only a high quality hose on this - a cheap one may break, and spew gas all over the place! NOT a nice thing to do on warm exhaust manifolds!

At the current mileage, I'd be swapping spark plugs ANYWAY as PM. 70K to 80K is where some platinums are starting to be worn out due to the gap eroding. My Cougar, for instance, gets about 40Kmiles on a set of Bosch Platinum Plus plugs. (They're 70 cents each on sale when I buy them, so that's not a big deal to me. Even if it means I change plugs annually ... )

RwP
 
#5 ·
I had similar once. My fuel pump (THAT one!) was failing, and it could not pump enough fuel,
That was my first thought too but as I read farther down his post, it began to look like major electrical failure......like a failing battery or a bad main cable connection on one side of the battery.

How old IS the battery ??
I suggest that you should have the battery and charging system tested.......and if the battery is over 5 years old, plan on replacing it anyway.
 
#6 ·
The battery is about 4-6 months old. I have had one person suggest that it could be a "crankshaft positioning sensor" and another suggesting that it may be the EGR Valve. Any thoughts on those two?
 
#8 ·
The battery is about 4-6 months old.
That doesn't mean that it couldn't be bad........or that the charging system has failed and isn't keeping it charged up. At most battery stores and some shops, the testing is quick and free.

As for the other stuff.......at 160K miles, it could be a LOT of things.
As was mentioned, the ignition switch gives some people fits.....and it is relatively inexpensive and not to difficult to replace.
 
#7 ·
How about the ignition switch? They're kinda famous for having issues.
 
#9 ·
It finally threw an engine code Saturday, and it was for the EGR Valve. I replaced that and it hasn't died yet, but I haven't driven that much.

However, the problem I was having with it starting where if I just immediately put the key in and crank it, it will turn over fine but never actually start, is still going on.

I still have to put the key in and turn it to "Run" for a few seconds before I crank it in order for it to start properly.
 
#10 ·
However, the problem I was having with it starting where if I just immediately put the key in and crank it, it will turn over fine but never actually start, is still going on.

I still have to put the key in and turn it to "Run" for a few seconds before I crank it in order for it to start properly.
When you turn the key on but don't turn it to crank, you're allowing the 2 second fuel pump prime to run beofre there's any fuel demand by the engine. Put a fuel pressure gauge on before you start it after an extended cold soak, and see if the fuel pressue comes right up or rises slowly. Pressure should rise very rapidly. Another thing you can try is to use the fuel pressure gauges bleed off valve to bleed off fuel while the engine is running. Of course catch the fuel in a safe container, keeping it away from sources of ignition. The engine should stay running at idle while you're bleeding off the fuel with the gauge. If it doesn't, it's very probable the fuel pump is starting to fail.
 
#13 ·
Well, the car died again, even after I replaced the EGR that it threw a code for, and it's still having trouble starting.

Would the theft light have anything to do with any of this? I have had trouble with the light before, and I had to have my key replaced, but when that was happening I was having to wait 10 minutes to try to start it again.

However, now I'm seeing that light on and only that light on when it's cranking and not starting. When I turn the key off an back on, all of the regular lights come on. Today when it died, I'm pretty sure that the theft light was on again (I didn't have long to look, it died in a curve and left me without power steering).

Please help if you can!
 
#14 ·
I have a 2000 Chevy Malibu with a 3.1 with about 164k Miles on it. If I just put the key in and immediately crank it, it will turn and never start. However, if I turn the key to run and let it sit for about 3-5 seconds and then crank it, it will start fine.

It has died on me two other times since then. The two most recent times it has died, I have had my foot on the gas. I have replaced the fuel filter, PCV Valve, and I checked the fuel pressure, which is holding steady at about 44 psi when the key is turned to run. The Air Filter is clean and new, and the battery is brand new.

I have noticed is that sometimes when I pull up to a stop sign first thing in the morning, I can see my lights dim sometimes like it's lost most of it's power. However, once it's warm it won't really do this, and it doesn't always do this when it's cold. Only occasionally will this happen.

The only other issue I have found is that when it is sitting idling, the engine will run with a kind of pulse or surging high low high low in rapid succession instead of running at a steady pace.

I have no engine codes and the check engine light has never come on during this time period where this has started happening.
The battery is about 4-6 months old. I have had one person suggest that it could be a "crankshaft positioning sensor" and another suggesting that it may be the EGR Valve. Any thoughts on those two?
How about the ignition switch? They're kinda famous for having issues.
A properly operating fuel pump will supply more than adequate pressure and volume almost instantly. If fuel pressure builds slowly or bleeds off rapidly after the pump shuts off, there's almost always a problem. Fuel pressure will bleed off on some sytems, like the old TBI systems in the late 80's and early 90's GM trucks for example. In that case fuel pressure should build almost instantly but it's normal to bleed off after the pump shuts off. By the description given, it sounds very much like a fuel pump going bad in the OP's vehicle. The basics seem to have been covered as far as tune up items. If the fuel pump checks out okay, I'd want to look at the voltages coming out of the ignition switch as those switches are prone to failure.
Would the theft light have anything to do with any of this? I have had trouble with the light before, and I had to have my key replaced, but when that was happening I was having to wait 10 minutes to try to start it again.

However, now I'm seeing that light on and only that light on when it's cranking and not starting. When I turn the key off an back on, all of the regular lights come on.
Please help if you can!
Okay, fuel pressure specification is 52-59 psi while the pump is running, engine off. You may have to cycle the key a few times to get an accurate reading but if you're outside that 52-59 psi window, you have to start there. Once you've established what fuel pressure you have, does it hold? Pressure shouldn't drop off more than 5 psi in 10 minutes. You said you have 44 psi. Way too low. Probable pump going bad. If your fuel pressure gauge has a bleed off tap, put that hose in a suitable container and with the engine running, open up the bleed tap. What that does is show if you have adequate volume as sometimes pressure is close to spec, by that I mean you'd be close to 50 psi, like I said 44 is way low. Anyway, if the engine stalls when the bleed tap is opened the pump is no good almost guaranteed. You could always have a pressure regulator sticking open but I'd only suspect that if pressure dropped off when the pump shuts off.

Second thing that I'd want to look at would be your voltages out of the ignition switch. When the dash doesn't light up, and most important, the check engine light isn't ON with the key on and engine off, something isn't right. If the PCM isn't commanding the check engine light on with the key on engine off, the PCM probably isn't powered up properly. Voltage to the PCM would be most suspect but grounds are equally important. If you have a volt meter, you want to check your PCM ACC fuse in the left junction block for 12 volts with the key on. Make sure you have a good ground connection for the meter and test at the fuse. If the ignition switch is bad, you'll usually see somewhere between 3 and 10 volts though it is possible to see nothing it's not likely. The switch doesn't fail that way too often. I guess it would be good to mention testing the battery voltage first, as the fuses I'll mention should be that voltage. If the battery measures 12.4 volts for example, you want to see that figure or very close to that at the fuses. Check the PCM IGN fuse in the underhood fuse block. PCM BATT fuse in the underhood fuse block should be battery voltage at all times. The F/P-INJR fuse should be checked in the run position. It's in the underhood junction block. The ERLS fuse in the underhood junction block, check it in run position. The IGN MOD fuse feeds the ignition module, won't hurt to check that. It's in the underhood junction block.

Jiggling the ignition key isn't really doing much though it's possible it may seem to have an effect, it's unlikely it really does. The ignition switch, when it fails, it's failing internally, at the contacts within the switch itself. When you jiggle the key, you cause minimal movement of the lock cylinder which engages the ignition switch, however the cylinder to switch mating area isn't a real solid fit so any movement that actualy makes it to the switch is very minor. It's even less likely to actually move anything at the contacts within the switch where the problem is.

As for the theft detterent causing the stall, once the vehicle is running, the most theft deterrent will do is cause the theft light to illuminate telling you there's a problem. The PCM is fail enabled at that point so it doesn't let you sit. Once you turn the engine off though, the fuel continue password has to be received again for the injectors to pulse and deliver fuel. The stall is either loss of fuel or loss of power almost always. There's members that claim they bypass the theft deterrent system with a resistor. Personally, I've never tried to do it, maybe someday if I'm in the mood, I'll give it a shot. If you do try to bypass the system, make sure your connections are clean and solid, don't just twist the wires. Crimp or solder the connections. If you put an ignition switch in, put a passlock sensor in while you're there and if you put a passlock sensor in, do the ignition switch at the same time. Saves you a dash tear down. Sure it costs you more up front but the peace of mind is worth it as you just ruled out two common causes of breakdowns.

A bad crank sensor can cause no start or stall if the signal is corrupted "dirty", which means it's not a nice clean square wave. There's 2 crank signals. A 24X and a 7X. The 7X signal is what causes the ignition to fire the spark. You just don't see them fail real frequently on these engines. Wiring problems sometimes, maybe from being misrouted during previous work, mice chew the wires. Been years since I put a crank sensor in one of these engines. If you lost the cam signal, the engine would run, only thing the cam sensor is doing is telling the PCM where cylinder 1 is for injector timing since these engines are sequential injection and not batch fired like older cars.

EGR code. What was the code? P0404? P1404? Something else? Pintle position sensors were common to go bad back in that era. Sometimes the valve got hung open by carbon and unless it got stuck all the way open, the most you'd see would be a rough idle, maybe a hard start cold. If it was stuck all the way open, it might not start but the only way you'd fix that would be pull the valve off and clean it up.

Check this stuff out and get back to us with your findings. Any questions? Feel free to ask, that's why we're here. Good luck.
 
#16 ·
Ok, I ran the tests on all of the fuses that you suggested and they all came back at about 11.84 volts, and the battery is at like 12.4 or so. The Fuel Pressure was at 50psi in the run position, however over a period of around 10 minutes of letting it sit in the run position, it dropped to around 31psi. So, I'm thinking it is the fuel pump, however there is one thing that still doesn't make any sense.

I'm noticing with the theft light comment that I made before. 2 out of 7 off to run key cycles that I did today, the only light that lit up was the theft light, but after about 3 or 4 seconds, I hear some kind of noise and the rest of the lights come up. Putting things together, on the times that this happens and only the theft light is on is the times when it will crank and not start.

Could I have more than one problem here? Or could the fuel pump have something to do with this as well?

As far as the pintle code on the EGR valve, I don't remember. It was showing two codes of the same thing if I remember correctly, so it could have been both of those codes you suggested.
 
#15 ·
I'm on my way into work this morning, and coming out of my neighborhood, at about 4000 rpms and rising it shut down like I hit a kill switch. Then it died a second time in the same way 5 minutes later. Whatever it is it's getting worse and more frequent. It was doing it once a week or 2 weeks, now it did it 2 days in a row, with it happening twice in 5 minutes today.

I am going to run the tests you listed and see what I find.
 
#25 ·
Alright, so I replaced the ignition switch and it hasn't acted up with that same problem since. However, on the way home from work after replacing the switch, it's now having trouble shifting. *heavy sigh* Usually in first gear when I'm getting up to speed, it'll run up to about 4800 rpms and then have a nice solid shift. However, now it's doing this slow rpm drop back to the 2000 rpm range before it feels like it has shifted.

I'm about to give up on this car...I tried to check the trans fluid, but it doesn't seem to have a dipstick. Also, I've heard that it can actually be bad to do a drain and fill at this point (164K miles, and have never touched the trans fluid).

I don't know what to do with this thing anymore, thought I had her fixed.
 
#26 ·
Usually in first gear when I'm getting up to speed, it'll run up to about 4800 rpms and then have a nice solid shift.
With 168K miles AND driving it so hard that it doesn't shift until 4,800 RPM, I think you should expect things to be wearing out about now.

Driving a little less agressively might help........but it really might BE time to give up on it and consider trading.

If you had the battery disconnected while replacing the switch, you can hope that once the "learning process" is done it will get better........but I don't think you should hold your breath.
 
#33 ·
I'll add that the red cap is under the crossover from the front exhaust manifold - be careful, I HAVE left a "GM Part Number" logo on my hand before :D

RwP
 
#35 ·
Heh! I've picked up IC part numbers on older computers and non-digital equipment by reading the scorch mark where the fingerprint used to be :D

I'd like to take that engineer and introduce him to Otis, the aluminum brother to my other educator, Louis (aka "Slugger") for NOT putting a dipstick on it. Dipstick indeed he is.

RwP
 
#37 ·
So it seems like the ignition switch has fixed the problem. The transmission seems to still be a little bit loose, but getting a little bit better as time goes on. Thank you so much for the help!
 
#39 ·
Hi, I'm new to this forum and having this issue with my 98. It comes and goes and what I notice is no dash lights what so ever. It stalls while driving, then won't start right away or will. Some days it will run fine all day. The next day not so much. Turning the ignition switch to ACC and then to run and start, I watch the instrument lights. If they go out, try again until it will start. It's just dumb luck after that.

That said, I checked all the fuses that rodent suggested and found that the PCM BATT was only reading 10.6. the F/P INJR was at 6.7 everything else was 11.8 to 12.1. Does this suggest that I need to replace the fuse block?

On a side note, while I was trouble shooting with my Haynes manual, I noticed that I could cause the stall by pushing on the wires from the 7x sensor to the coil module. I replaced the connector and the problem is less frequent but still happens.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
#40 ·
That said, I checked all the fuses that rodent suggested and found that the PCM BATT was only reading 10.6. the F/P INJR was at 6.7 everything else was 11.8 to 12.1. Does this suggest that I need to replace the fuse block?
You sure it was the PCM BATT fuse that was at 10.6 volts? Sure it wasn't PCM IGN? Anyway, it won't run with 6.7 volts to the F/P INJ fuse. Now, whether it's a bad ignition switch or fuse block. Next time it acts up, check as many of these as possible. IGN MOD, NSBU, PCM IGN, A/C BFC, AUTO TRANS, ICC IGN, all in the underhood juction block, AND check the AIR BAG and TURN LPS fuses in the left I/P junction block. Of course check the F/P INJ fuse, we know it has issues but we need to see what the others are doing at the same time. If none of the other listed fuses are reading lower than B+ and the F/P INJ fuse is reading below B+, you have a bad underhood fuse block. If all of the fuses are reading low, you have a bad ignition switch. If you get a few of the fuses reading low in the U/H fuse block, jump to the LH I/P fuse block real quick and check there. The two fuse blocks are fed right from the same terminal on the ignition switch for the mentioned fuses at least. If you go the ignition switch route, do yourself a favor and replace the ignition lock cylinder/passlock sensor at the same time. You're right there and both are high failure rate items.
 
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