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2009 Malibu Brake Light Question

138K views 128 replies 29 participants last post by  va2001ss 
#1 ·
Having issue with brake lights coming on periodically after brake pedal is pressed and released. Thanks for any input.
 
#57 ·
I was finally able to get my car in for service today. On top of the brake lights not working properly, while driving to the dealer the Service traction and Service ESC warnings started flashing.

Here is what my invoice states for the fix:

Com- BODY ELECTRICAL; Customer states brake lamps will come on when driving, when applying brakes the lights will go out. Also the service trac and esc lights are on.

Cau- Confirmed. Inspection found code in history C0131 for pressure control circuit malfunction.

Cor- Complete reprogramming of brake pedal calibration. test drove and concern did not duplicate. no codes reset. cleared code.

Now I'm just hoping this fix keeps and I do not need to bring it back in for this problem.

Thanks again for all the information everyone!
 
#60 ·
When some of you see 'connector repair' as the fix you might assume the connector had an issue where there was a loose terminal, broken wire, some sort of physical issue, and I understand that assumption, but I can tell you why some of you see 'connector repair' on your invoice. The labor operation for the bulletin I'll paste below has BCM connector repair as it's title. The connector isn't taken apart, it's supposed to be worked back and forth by connecting and removing the connector a few times to clean away the fretting corrosion, then the tech is supposed to apply silicone dielectric grease to prevent it from happening again. If the connector isn't worked a few times, more like 8 to 10 times, to clean away the fretting, it comes right back. Just an attempt to explain why you see, what you see on your invoices.

#08-05-22-009C: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Cruise Control Inop, DTCs C0131/C0161/C0277 (Perform Repair Outlined) - (Sep 30, 2010)


Subject: Intermittently Brake Lights (Stop Lamps) Do Not Function Correctly, Extended Travel to Shift Out of Park, Cruise Control Inoperative, DTCs C0131, C0161 or C0277 Set (Perform Repair as Outlined)


Models: 2004-2008 Chevrolet Malibu, Malibu Maxx

2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic

2008-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

2005-2010 Pontiac G6

2007-2009 Saturn AURA




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-05-22-009B (Section 05 - Brakes).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment that intermittently the brake lights do not function correctly. Other symptoms may include extended pedal travel required to shift out of PARK, cruise control does not function correctly, and DTC C0131, C0161 and/or C0277 may be set.

Cause
The most likely cause of this condition is high resistance due to terminal fretting corrosion in the body control module (BCM) C2 or X2 connector (specifically pins 18, 31 and 59).

Correction
DO NOT replace the BCM for this condition. Disconnecting the C2 or X2 connector, adding dielectric lubricant and reconnecting the connector per the procedure below will correct the high resistance condition due to terminal fretting corrosion.

Remove the right side front floor console side trim panel to access to the Body Control Module (BCM).
Locate the C2 or X2 connector on the BCM.
Unlatch the connector and disconnect the connector from the BCM.
Apply dielectric lubricant (clear gel), GM P/N 12377900 (in Canada, use P/N 10953529) or equivalent, on all the connector pins (apply with a one-inch nylon bristle brush). This will treat the pins against fretting corrosion.
Reconnect the connector back on the BCM and re-latch. Wipe away any excess lubricant.
Reinstall the right side front floor console side trim panel.
Using the Tech 2®, check that the BPPS ratio is equal to BPPS learned home when the brake pedal is not depressed.
• If they are equal, the brake lamps should be operating correctly and no further steps are necessary.

• If they are not equal, perform the Brake Pedal Position Sensor Calibration procedure in SI to complete the repair.

Verify proper operation of the brake lights. If incorrect, refer to SI and perform normal diagnostics.
Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

N9595*
BCM C2 or X2 Connector Repair
0.3 hr

* This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.
 
#61 ·
Yeah that "fix" i posted from the dealer yesterday didnt even last 24 hours. Same problems already again this morning. trying to get it back in today. so now at the 6 month mark of owning this car its been in for the cruise control, tire pressure sensors, and now this stuff. this being my first chevy im not impressed and am really getting annoyed with it.

for comparison i drove my last car to 196,000+ miles without a single service issue outside scheduled maintenance. maybe im just spoiled with luck there, but averaging a trip in every 2 months for electronic issues is unacceptable to me.
 
#63 ·
Well the cruise control thing was separate and I was lucky enough to have it still under warranty when that occured. That was well before the brake light issue. Of course now the cruise control won't work, but I understand that's because it thinks the brakes are being used. When the brake lights aren't acting up the cruise works fine.
 
#65 ·
On my '09 I used to have the cruise kick off or not engage every once in a while, but it did it less than 10 times in less than a month and then never did it again. I wonder if the brake lights were coming on or if it had that other issue. I told my service writer about it and they never did anything about it. That was in early '09.
 
#66 ·
Just an update. I had tried reseating relays and the BCM and these both seemed to work temporarily. When the problem recurred I finally bit the bullet and took the 09 malibu in to the dealer, even though I was sure it would be a nightmare involving multiple trips and hundreds of dollars.
Much to my surprise I was charged for one hour of diagnostic work and a loose wire in the BCM was repaired. Its been two weeks now and no problems! I may have to change my opinion of dealer service depts. They now rank above lawyers.
 
#67 ·
Following up on my end as well. Turns out the dealer did in fact work through the TCB mentioned and added the gel mentioned in it, but the reason it didn't last long on my end was the tech did not reconnect everything properly. Took it back at the first available time and they checked everything only to find the connector vibrating loose. Thankfully they admitted the mistake on their end and did not charge me anything else. It's been a week today and the fix has held.
 
#68 ·
Does anybody have a price on the work done by the dealer? I too have the exact same issues as described above (Brake lights stay on, service ESC on display). Just got back from the dealer and they are quoting me $1,104 for parts & labor. Stated I need a new traction control switch, brake switch, ebcm with valve module. Beyond disappointed with this car since purchased, nothing but problems, any info on dealer pricing would be much appreciated.
 
#69 ·
I can't speak to the issues going on in your vehicle, but for mine nothing needed to actually be replaced. They worked the TCB mentioned in the thread by applying the gel to the connector and reconnecting. My charges in full came out to about 3/4 of an hour of work, diagnosis time included in that, and my total out the door was $60.
 
#70 ·
Thanks TontoJ, that's helpful. I'm a bit skeptical of this dealer, especially when my issue is sporadic at best. I also don't want to take it to another dealer and be charged another $120 just for them to tell me "what's wrong" with the car. I think this might be worse than finding out I had to take off my entire front bumper to change by headlights.
 
#74 ·
Update: I received a call back from Chevy/GM Customer service today. The rep simply called the dealer and confirmed what I had told him, nothing more. He explained the parts and price, which I already knew, and stated that there was nothing more that could be done. I posed the question "what happens if paying $1,200 does not fix the issue"...he simply said those parts would be covered by a 10K mile warranty. After he said this, he realized "does not fix the issue" was point and had further response for me, so after a few more minutes of back and forth, I kindly thanked him (for nothing) and hung up.

Highly disappointed with customer service and the Chevy brand. Still trying to determine what my options are, but it seems like I'll have to go ahead and get the work done, or continue to drive around with my brake lights on and the message on the dash.
 
#75 ·
Highly disappointed with customer service and the Chevy brand. Still trying to determine what my options are,
Having brake lights that don't work right is a safety hazzard........and having to pay $1200 to get them fixed is outrageous. They should be able to isolate the problem to a SINGLE defective part and replace that.

I suggest that you contact the NTSB, National Transportation Safety Board, and tell the dealer and your "corporate contact" that you are doing that.

Maybe this has been asked before but how far out of warranty are you ??

If there is another GM dealer anywhere close by (any brand), getting a second opinoin might be helpful.
 
#76 ·
If you're handy at all you can find a way to put a contact switch on the pedal and wire your own brake light circuit. Just be sure it works flawlessly or you're back in the same boat.

One version would be to use a magnetic switch that controls a relay. That way you might be able to mimic the signals that the BCM is looking for and then you wouldn't have to rewire the freakin' thing. The magnet would mount to the pedal and the reed switch would mount in close proximity so it would switch as the magnet moves away from it.

Another way would be to find a way to mount some kind of "L" bracket to hold a "standard" brake light switch so the pedal arm contacts it to shut them off and moves away to turn them on. Again, you could either mimic the BPPS or rewire the whole system.

If there's some way you can scream to the NTSB and get them to see how lame it is to have a computer calculate whether to turn the lights on or off (and getting it wrong) then that could be the start of a move to make brake lights a simple circuit that works like it is expected to work: all the time!
 
#81 ·
May I suggest a possible mod that would help you? If you put a light where you can see it, even if just temporarily until you fix your issue, you'll have an indicator that will tell you immediately when/if your brake lights decide to do their own thing.

I like knowing what is going on with my car without having to guess. I can't tell by the dash if the parking lights are on or not, and I can rarely tell when the brake lights are lit except at night. On my '09 (traded) I had a pair of small, dim LEDs I used. On each side below the speedo there is a plastic filler and I installed one in each. One was for the brakes (used the CHMSL) and the other was for fogs (2LT without factory fogs). But I still never knew when the parking lights were on.

In my '11 I have started to make some of the same mods. In my overhead console I have an LED for the parking lights. It lets me know when they're on and I find it useful during the day when I'm not sure if I have headlights or DRLs burning. (My DRLs are converted from lows to turns.)

Next to the factory fog switch is a filler panel. Currently I have a small LED to indicate the CHMSL which I have hooked up to a pulser (see link in sig) so I can program it. I will be moving it to the filler under the speedo like in my '09, partly because that's where I wanted to put it and partly because the steering wheel hides it unless I move my hand to my lap. I'll also add another one for the fogs since the factory switch is completely hidden as well.
 
#83 ·
I like knowing what is going on with my car without having to guess. I can't tell by the dash if the parking lights are on or not, and I can rarely tell when the brake lights are lit except at night. On my '09 (traded) I had a pair of small, dim LEDs I used. On each side below the speedo there is a plastic filler and I installed one in each. One was for the brakes (used the CHMSL) and the other was for fogs (2LT without factory fogs). But I still never knew when the parking lights were on.

In my '11 I have started to make some of the same mods. In my overhead console I have an LED for the parking lights. It lets me know when they're on and I find it useful during the day when I'm not sure if I have headlights or DRLs burning. (My DRLs are converted from lows to turns.)

Next to the factory fog switch is a filler panel. Currently I have a small LED to indicate the CHMSL which I have hooked up to a pulser (see link in sig) so I can program it. I will be moving it to the filler under the speedo like in my '09, partly because that's where I wanted to put it and partly because the steering wheel hides it unless I move my hand to my lap. I'll also add another one for the fogs since the factory switch is completely hidden as well.
Those are some great ideas! Especially like putting them in the IPC. What led bezels did you use? Black, chrome or what? I've only seen chrome.
 
#82 ·
It's hard to gauge how big of a problem the random brake light issue is. Does anyone know what it takes for a car manufacturer to do a recall on a problem like this? It seems that it's a common enough issue that a TSB exists but it's not bad enough for a recall to be done.
 
#84 ·
I got the little red LEDs from Radio Shack that have the resistor included so you can hook them up to 12V without burning them up. They have no bezel and are quite low in candlepower. Keeps them from burning up your eyes in the dark but they're still visible in the daytime. They're not big at all - about 1/8" diameter.
 
#85 ·
To be precise - a T1 sized, 3mm diameter.

Which is pretty darn close to 1/8", BTW.

RwP
 
#86 · (Edited)
I was a little too tired at midnight to go looking, but this morning I found the packet. It is

PN 276-0084
Red
LED Assembly
12VDC 15mA 50mcd

I guess I was a little off with the size. The lens is 1/4" (6mm) and it takes a hole 13/64" (5.16mm) to mount it. But it's still a lot smaller than any other I've seen and barely rises above the surface.


Picture link to Radio Shack website
 
#88 ·
I was a little too tired at midnight to go looking, but this morning I found the packet. It is

PN 276-0084
Red
LED Assembly
12VDC 15mA 50mcd

I guess I was a little off with the size. The lens is 1/4" (6mm) and it takes a hole 13/64" (5.16mm) to mount it. But it's still a lot smaller than any other I've seen and barely rises above the surface.

Picture link to Radio Shack website
Thanks for that lead. I never think to check the shack dot com much anymore. I like those lamps.
 
#91 ·
I did experience this problem (along with the Service ESC error) and made several frustrating trips to a dealership, and one to an independent garage, before this was resolved. I haven't seen this issue crop up since early August.

I'm not sure how common this problem is but it seems to be common enough to have a TSB. It turned out to be a potentially dangerous situation because I did experience times where I'd be able to set the cruise control in a highway use situation and use it for a long period of time and then the cruise control would shut off at a random time. After that I wouldn't be able to set the cruise control for the remainder of my trip. When I got to a stopping point I'd check the rear brake light and it would be on.
 
#89 ·
Ralph,
Did you notice how slyly I mentioned that "I was a little off"? Only by a magnitude of double! Oh well, I guess my rememberer works real good, but my recallerer needs some polish.

So if my description had been correct then a 3mm T1 would have been the right item. Sorry to steer ya down the wrong path.
 
#90 ·
Yah. You were probably right to begin with.

I've used a lot of the LiteOn T1 LEDs with the 12V dropping resistor on the die in things I've built - so I assumed that was what you were talking bout.

I was of course mistaken (as people who assume do. Won't go into what that word means ... )

RwP
 
#95 ·
Recently purchased a used 2009 Malibu LS and have found that the brake lights are on when they are supposed to be off.

After reading the forum for a bit, it is obvious that this is a known and wide spread problem amongst several GM products.

It absolutely amazes me that there has not been a recall to fix this, as it is a major safety issue.

Sure wish I had known about this before I bought the car. :mad:
 
#99 ·
Just wanted to update everyone on what took place with my brake light problem. I contacted the used car dealer who I purchased the car from and he told me to bring the car back to him and he would have it fixed. The car has now been fixed (not exactly sure what they did to repair it). But it didn't cost me anything.

I will be keeping an eye on this in the future as this seems to be a very
common problem. In fact, I was driving down the freeway just the other day and spotted a Malibu going 70 mph with the brake lights on for miles.
 
#96 ·
How recent? It's a safety issue that your seller might be willing to fix, since they're probably a responsible business citizen.

A work-around fix would be to bypass the BCM entirely, but that would also mean having to do something for the turn signals. If mine ever goes out that's probably what I'll do. I think it's a crock to have a computer have to "think" about whether to turn the lights on or off when those lights are such an important safety device.
 
#97 · (Edited)
This is now the 2nd Malibu Ive owned with this same problem (esc/traction Service light) and brake lights staying on which causes cruise control not to function.
I traded my first 2008 malibu for a newer 2009 to get back under warranty since I was not sure the problem was fixed.
Now my 2009 ltz was in the shop friday for this problem and the chevy dealer told me "it was fixed" I was told a brake switch was bad.
That night same problems are back. I will talk to the dealer tomorrow and take it in soon as i can run it there when the problem is occuring, since many of you know it resets once the car is shut off.
Very frustrated with this problem especially now on my 2nd malibu.:mad:
Glad it happened now though....warranty runs out in 1 month...
 
#98 ·
I suffered from something similar on my '11 late last year. I believe it was weather related because it rained about 2" in one hour and the temps dropped from over 90* to just over 70* during that time. The ESC was inactive, TC was inactive, a message said Service ESC and another said Reduced Power. It felt like I had less than 3 cylinders.

As I drove the power returned by the time I got home, and the next morning the Service ESC finally cleared. I dropped it off for service and they couldn't find anything. Hmmm, an ESC error without a code being stored in memory??? Oh well.

That weekend I was doing some mods to my car and ended up unplugging the BCM, which may have just "fixed" it. Sometimes fretting occurs on cars with low voltage computer-level circuits, and these circuits are more susceptible to degraded connections than higher-voltage or -amperage circuits are. I figured that I had just a little fretting and when the weather cooled so quickly it was attracted to the corrosion and it was just too much until the humidity levels fell. Haven't had an issue since.

You might want to try it for yourself. Disconnect the negative battery cable, then go under the front right console and remove the BCM plug a few times. That action will clean the terminal contacts and just might relieve you of the condition.

BTW, the reason for removing the negative battery cable and not the positive is from suggestions to car owners decades ago. If you're working on the battery and your wrench comes into contact with ground you won't spark or weld it if you're working on the negative, but that risk is much greater if you're working on the positive. Regardless of which one you choose, use due caution.
 
#100 ·
Thanks for the suggestion.. I will keep that in mind....Dropped off my Malibu today to the dealership. Service Manager assured me the problem will be resolved under warranty.."No Matter how long it takes".
They gave me a "loaner" car...funny it was a 2009 Malibu...:) until they get mine fixed.
I will update when I get my car back...
 
#101 ·
If possible, do us a favor and keep us updated on what they do to resolve the problem. (Assuming they do resolve it) This is a big help for those troubleshooting their own problems.

Kudos on the loaner!! Let them take their time, you're driving their car now!! :)
 
#102 ·
Usually it is resolved with a BPP (brake pedal position) sensor recalibration. If you (or other readers) haven't read all that goes on to get the brake lights to light, the BPP is not a switch, it's a volume control (rheostat). The BCM has to be programmed to "see" when the BPP is at rest ("off") or has moved far enough or fast enough ("on") before it can decide to turn them on or off. If it has lost its programming it could result in what was observed - a vehicle making normal progress at freeway speed with the brake lights on, but no lights when the pedal is pressed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Feds ought to make a law that simply states a brake light must be energized with an actual contact switch that directly turns the brake lights on, or does so through a turn signal switch that cancels only one at a time and/or an emergency switch that cancels both but only to cause them to flash. It's a freakin' safety item that just needs to work, like they have for decades!

I believe the engineers came up with the BPP solution when they had moveable pedals, but since those were available on 2008 models only it should have been discarded like the lousy solution it is.

If mine ever fails outside of warranty I'll wire in a permanent solution that bypasses the BPP entirely and I'll never have that issue again.
 
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