I've got a weird problem with the lights. I've eliminated the fuses, relays, and ambient light sensor. That seems to leave the body control module (BCM). I can buy a new one online for $150, or a used one for $50 or so. Can the BCM just be swapped out, or does the replacement need to be programmed with a Tech 2 tool? This is a 2001 generic Malibu.
2001 BCM replacement
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What's the problem? Maybe we can steer you toward a different solution.
Or not.
Or not.
Here are the symptoms: When the car is started in the day time, the daytime running lamps do not come on but the "Service Engine Soon" light does. When the car is started at night, the headlights come on as normal (in Auto mode) and there is no SES light. I've checked the DRL relay and the related fuse and the DRL resistor and they seem fine.
This is not a big problem in the scheme of things. I'm about done putting money into this car.
This is not a big problem in the scheme of things. I'm about done putting money into this car.
if it is the BCM , and it could be mine is bad. Mine stays awake randomly and kills the battery overnight. You cannot replace it with a used BCM. It according to GM has to be a brand new "blank" BCM as the vin and odometer information is kept on the BCM and can never be changed. I called 3 local Chevy dealers and was told the same thing. I also verified that in the TSB for replacing the module to be very careful entering this data , because if you make a mistake it can't be re-entered. The BCM is now useless and another one will need to be acquired. I would love to proven wrong, as I bought a used BCM to replace mine. I was told nope wont work , they can't change the VIN you need a new one.
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I have seen on other forums where people have changed the BCM's with used ones. A dealer is going to tell you it can not be done for liability reasons.
No, we don't have a way to change the VIN, it's a feature that I think does exist but is not in our Tech2 software. There is a website, don't recall the address, that owner claims he can reset the VIN so it can be programmed again. It's a tuner website. With a gen 5 BCM though, you're better off putting a new one in as they had some issues that I believe were resolved in newer BCM part numbers. If you gen 5 owners don't like what you have to put up with, buy a newer car and try swapping modules. You'll wish you had your gen 5 back.
Yes that's exactly what I read in the tech bulletins Rodents, It actually makes sense for theft reasons. A thief may be able to change the vin tag , but not what pops up on the computer.
The only real beef I have is , I removed the battery from my SS and now its got a p0315 error that can only be reset / relearned by the dealer. The 3 dealers I spoke to said yup that happens sometimes. $95 please, so I had to buy a battery and pay 95 bucks to fix a FW bug in their ECM.
The only real beef I have is , I removed the battery from my SS and now its got a p0315 error that can only be reset / relearned by the dealer. The 3 dealers I spoke to said yup that happens sometimes. $95 please, so I had to buy a battery and pay 95 bucks to fix a FW bug in their ECM.
That's not very common to happen, can't say I've seen it more than a handful of times and with the volume of programming I've done, it's a real low occurrence. It's a learn function of the ECM. Aftermarket (Snapon and OTC) tools can do the learn as well so it's not just a dealer that can do it. The independent shop will charge you as well, maybe not as much though.
Keeping these scantools up to date isn't cheap, nor is buying them and all the damn different adapters you have to buy that you may never use. That cost gets passed along like most other costs. A business is in business to make money at the bottom line.
I have a Snapon Verus, my own, paid for with my money. Initial cost was 10,000 dollars. Costs me a thousand dollars a year to keep it up to date and buy the personality keys needed for new coverage. I bought 4 Land Rover keys this year. Over a hundred bucks in stuff I'll probably never use. Thing is, the 10,000 dollar scantool is useless if you don't have the adapters to make use of the software. The independent shop owner is going to pass those kinds of costs along, just like the dealer does. At our place, we get tools shipped to us whenever they are made 'essential'. No option to buy them, just here's the tool and here's the bill, have a nice day. There are thousands of dollars in tools, never used, some never opened up in the first place, just lying around in our shop.
Maybe the federal government could stay out of things it's not empowered to do under the Constitution and we could have less complication and expense in cars.
Keeping these scantools up to date isn't cheap, nor is buying them and all the damn different adapters you have to buy that you may never use. That cost gets passed along like most other costs. A business is in business to make money at the bottom line.
I have a Snapon Verus, my own, paid for with my money. Initial cost was 10,000 dollars. Costs me a thousand dollars a year to keep it up to date and buy the personality keys needed for new coverage. I bought 4 Land Rover keys this year. Over a hundred bucks in stuff I'll probably never use. Thing is, the 10,000 dollar scantool is useless if you don't have the adapters to make use of the software. The independent shop owner is going to pass those kinds of costs along, just like the dealer does. At our place, we get tools shipped to us whenever they are made 'essential'. No option to buy them, just here's the tool and here's the bill, have a nice day. There are thousands of dollars in tools, never used, some never opened up in the first place, just lying around in our shop.
Maybe the federal government could stay out of things it's not empowered to do under the Constitution and we could have less complication and expense in cars.
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Oh, but then who would protect us, feed us, care for us?
Rodents I agree with 100% on the federal mandates, but that still does not excuse the manufacturer from fixing bad code for free. My point is , its a sloppy way to program a computer for a car. its a function that can be easily learned without intervention just as they have done in the past. I read up on the flash / learn process for this , its not even 5 minutes to perform. Also its really not even needed accurately RUN the engine, its only purpose is to have a reference to detect a misfire. If you bought a laptop that had Windows on it and that version had a known issue of required reinstalling the OS if the pc lost power at the right time would you expect MS to patch it for free or charge you ? Its a bug , it should be done for free. if I was asking for a flash to turn on a option I installed my self ( like upgrade my radio) I would expect to pay for it. plus the three dealers I spoke to said it was a common issue and is fixed in a newer FW. If it wasn't a BUG I would say yes charge the customer. if its a known FW issue. It should be done for free as a customer satisfaction function. We at Dell fix bugs for free, no charge to the customer.
You show me where your warranty goes past 3 years or 36,000 miles for 'defects in materials and workmanship' and you'll get it fixed for free. Go buy your Microsoft or Dell car and let me know how it works out for you. At the end of your 3/36 warranty, you'll be SOL. My laptop warranty expired, the answer was 'how would you like to pay for that sir?' With GM, the dealers have the authority given to them, by GM upfront, to address issues that arise out of warranty, there are mileage and time out of warranty guidelines, the assistance given declines on a scale, as time (in days) and miles out of warranty go on. The end of this coverage is 5 years or 60,000 miles AFTER base warranty expiration. Dell offer that at no charge? Microsoft? HP? Bulletin number is 11-00-89-005E. I don't feel it's for me to put this on the forum, it exists for dealer information really. If your dealer wishes to assist you and utilize that bulletin, it is there. GM is trying to get dealers on board with this and some do not get it. This policy addresses issues like a P0315 that should not have set, it's not the customers fault, it should be addressed and this is how GM has done it. I think it's pretty damn good. What other industry does this?
Dell Control Point ring any bells? My first Dell laptop (Mobile Precision M4400) had so many issues with DCP and I talked to Dell's support people who admitted the faults existed and it was not fixed at that point, I was told to not install it when I reloaded Windows due to some oddball keyboard issue. My machine was workable but not as it was shipped to me. I'm not knocking Dell, I had a great service life from the first laptop and bought a second Dell to replace it. THAT glitch was never fixed, or if it was, it was never made known to those of us that had problems. No company is perfect, including Dell or GM.
The car does run with a P0315 set, so just drive it then. Oh, wait, that's right, our wonderful government rams emission testing down our throats, yeah, wonderful thing it is. Maybe a few thousand less regulations would be better. Maybe cleaning up real emissions would do the Earth better than buying emissions credits like some companies do. The customer is going to pay for it anyway, why shouldn't we do the right thing and take better care of our planet?
Every company has its warranty coverage, for some reason, a lot of people on this forum think every issue is a safety issue or a software bug and it HAS to be fixed for free forever. Good luck with that.
There are a lot of procedures that don't take long, that's got what to do with paying for it? Go to the doctor for a sore throat and he writes you a prescription, not even in the room with you for 5 minutes, does he/she do it for free?
Dell Control Point ring any bells? My first Dell laptop (Mobile Precision M4400) had so many issues with DCP and I talked to Dell's support people who admitted the faults existed and it was not fixed at that point, I was told to not install it when I reloaded Windows due to some oddball keyboard issue. My machine was workable but not as it was shipped to me. I'm not knocking Dell, I had a great service life from the first laptop and bought a second Dell to replace it. THAT glitch was never fixed, or if it was, it was never made known to those of us that had problems. No company is perfect, including Dell or GM.
The car does run with a P0315 set, so just drive it then. Oh, wait, that's right, our wonderful government rams emission testing down our throats, yeah, wonderful thing it is. Maybe a few thousand less regulations would be better. Maybe cleaning up real emissions would do the Earth better than buying emissions credits like some companies do. The customer is going to pay for it anyway, why shouldn't we do the right thing and take better care of our planet?
Every company has its warranty coverage, for some reason, a lot of people on this forum think every issue is a safety issue or a software bug and it HAS to be fixed for free forever. Good luck with that.
There are a lot of procedures that don't take long, that's got what to do with paying for it? Go to the doctor for a sore throat and he writes you a prescription, not even in the room with you for 5 minutes, does he/she do it for free?
Rodents , again I agree with 100% about the gov. so I'm not going to argue that point. I totally disagree with inspection itself. Its just a way (here in NH and Mass to the south for unscrupulous garages to get money out of peoples pocket for repairs that are not needed for "safety" ;-)
Your compare apples to oranges on he laptop, im not talking about if my cigarette lighter stopped working or the dome light only cam on once in a while. This is a basic functionality programmed into the car from the factory that effects the basic usability of the vehicle. So back to the main OS , Microsoft which is what I was referring to, and the Dell bios , and ALL of our patches for all products are FREE to dl way past the end of life of the product. If you find a bug in a utility that does not cripple the PC it is fixed for free up till the pc is end of life or we have a work around for you. you probably got the wrong tech over seas ;-) don't get me started on that though. Many customers are shocked to find out I'm in dell support in the USA? Its only because I work in enterprise support, the PC and laptop stuff is still handled over seas for the most part.
Also I'm not referring to something NEW to Chevy they knew the bug is there and SHOULD have sent out letters to get it upgraded , period. That's what TSB and recalls are for. There are many TSB that say handle on a customer satisfaction "method" I'm a loyal dedicated Chevy guy have been for years , they make great products. That's what we do. Also I can go onto any computer manufacturer website and get every fix that cam out for the PC for free, both BIOS and drivers. EVEN if the hardware has been EOL for 10 years.
The last time this happened to me was because gm screwed up the mass air flow code so bad they basically flashed it to speed density and charged ME $250 because their code sucked.
You really sound like you don't like your job much. Again your preaching the choir on the government.
Your compare apples to oranges on he laptop, im not talking about if my cigarette lighter stopped working or the dome light only cam on once in a while. This is a basic functionality programmed into the car from the factory that effects the basic usability of the vehicle. So back to the main OS , Microsoft which is what I was referring to, and the Dell bios , and ALL of our patches for all products are FREE to dl way past the end of life of the product. If you find a bug in a utility that does not cripple the PC it is fixed for free up till the pc is end of life or we have a work around for you. you probably got the wrong tech over seas ;-) don't get me started on that though. Many customers are shocked to find out I'm in dell support in the USA? Its only because I work in enterprise support, the PC and laptop stuff is still handled over seas for the most part.
Also I'm not referring to something NEW to Chevy they knew the bug is there and SHOULD have sent out letters to get it upgraded , period. That's what TSB and recalls are for. There are many TSB that say handle on a customer satisfaction "method" I'm a loyal dedicated Chevy guy have been for years , they make great products. That's what we do. Also I can go onto any computer manufacturer website and get every fix that cam out for the PC for free, both BIOS and drivers. EVEN if the hardware has been EOL for 10 years.
The last time this happened to me was because gm screwed up the mass air flow code so bad they basically flashed it to speed density and charged ME $250 because their code sucked.
You really sound like you don't like your job much. Again your preaching the choir on the government.
Quite the contrary, I do like my job quite a bit, it's the people that think they are entitled to 'free forever repairs' that disgust me. There's a lot of BS in this business like any other and some people wake up in the morning with their only goal being to make lives of other people more aggravating than need be. That could be said of lots of jobs though.
My job though is much harder to outsource than yours. You think garages are out to scam you, really? All businesses then, are scams? What business do you go to where they don't sell you a product for profit and then try to upsell you? Nobody forces you to do anything to your car. You have to approve the repair first if you're paying for it. Even for warranty and recall work, you have to agree to it, you can decline at least some recalls. Inspection is mandated by the government, not the repair shop. PA inspection is a joke anyway. There's lots of stuff I have to let go, when it should be repaired for safe vehicle operation. I have to say a persons vehicle is safe to drive, when I know damn well a brake line is so rusty it might burst while I have it. If it isn't leaking when I inspect the vehicle, I can't fail it.
Most people don't know much more than put the key in the ignition and turn it and drive and then fill the tank when the needle points to E. I don't see a lot of people crawling under their cars to check them out to see what needs to be addressed. All the cars on the road, in varying states of disrepair, it's amazing there aren't more accidents than there are. There is no reason not to have periodic inspection on a motor vehicle. People like you know better though and think I'm here to take money out of your pocket dishonestly. There are some (too many) that are that way, but not all of us. Some of us take pride in who we are and what we do, and in case you didn't figure that out, I'm one of them.
When you get your Dell/Microsoft car on the road and have 'free forever repairs', I'm sure you'll have a big smile on your face. Until then you have a base warranty that covers defects in materials and workmanship for the period specified by the manufacturer. With GM and probably some other manufacturers, they offer assistance out of warranty, still not good enough for you though.
When you do your job for free, I'll do mine for free, until then we pay as we go.
I get your point, but i didnt say all garages use the inspection as a means of creating needless repairs. I never insinuated YOU were dishonest. But i have been around the block enough times to see what happens. I happen to be lucky enough to have a garage thats sounds like they have techs like you. I would like to know if my car is unsafe , or its going to need a set of pads soon.
But your missing the point and this is a useless conversation , i didnt mean to steal theis thread . But to you comment about fixing bugs for free , we already do. LOL how often do you get updates from Microsoft? Even though you bought the PC 5 years ago, when BUG in the code is found its fixed period.
With that said im done with this. You contradict yourself too much and take things too personally.
But your missing the point and this is a useless conversation , i didnt mean to steal theis thread . But to you comment about fixing bugs for free , we already do. LOL how often do you get updates from Microsoft? Even though you bought the PC 5 years ago, when BUG in the code is found its fixed period.
With that said im done with this. You contradict yourself too much and take things too personally.
All I can say is this:
LOL , yes I've seen this before. it is funny, but untrue .The big difference is it would be considered a bug , a fix (update) would be available for FREE from MS.
MS wouldn't say , hey you have an older version of windows and you are hitting a known issue but your windows install is 5 years old so, We can fix it if you buy the latest updates , otherwise beat it. Its unfortunate that every forum I join has at least 1 or 2 "senior members" that are more of hindrance than helpful. They just want to get on the soap box and preach, when they could be very helpful. I have no idea what the government has to do with a bug in a FW on the ECM for a 2006 Malibu written by GM. But its fine, I've dealt with this kind of stuff before. I have my degree in electronics so I'm more than capable of figuring out how a simple car computer system communicates. I work with computer systems 1000 times more complex than a simple ECM, BCM. We have logic analyzers at work to bring up the BCM on the bench , get the spec sheet for the proms and CPU used to run it. I'm 99% sure GM doesn't have a die fab for making chips. They buy them off the shelf just like everybody else does.
We have a few l4's at work that are like this , they know the stuff down pat , but nobody goes to them as the get berated for a half hour and then maybe they will get the answer. Its easier and less painful to do the research yourself.
MS wouldn't say , hey you have an older version of windows and you are hitting a known issue but your windows install is 5 years old so, We can fix it if you buy the latest updates , otherwise beat it. Its unfortunate that every forum I join has at least 1 or 2 "senior members" that are more of hindrance than helpful. They just want to get on the soap box and preach, when they could be very helpful. I have no idea what the government has to do with a bug in a FW on the ECM for a 2006 Malibu written by GM. But its fine, I've dealt with this kind of stuff before. I have my degree in electronics so I'm more than capable of figuring out how a simple car computer system communicates. I work with computer systems 1000 times more complex than a simple ECM, BCM. We have logic analyzers at work to bring up the BCM on the bench , get the spec sheet for the proms and CPU used to run it. I'm 99% sure GM doesn't have a die fab for making chips. They buy them off the shelf just like everybody else does.
We have a few l4's at work that are like this , they know the stuff down pat , but nobody goes to them as the get berated for a half hour and then maybe they will get the answer. Its easier and less painful to do the research yourself.
I think we all need to take a breath and see just what's being discussed here. My post above was meant to be a way to add some humor to what appears to be a flaming roast, and I can see I was right on track.
Nobody is saying that MS or Dell doesn't provide free fixes. It's apparent that your experience and training means that you're quite knowledgeable about MicroSoft in general and Dell in particular, along with an extensive electronics background.
That humorous interlude above wasn't meant to be true, nor is it substantiated that an MS car would crash for no apparent reason, etc, etc. It simply plays on the experience that everyone with a computer has had. MS has actually provided patches and fixes well beyond a "bumper-to-bumper" computer warranty whether MS was responsible or the cause was from outside sources. I'm sure Dell has done its good deeds as well. By the same token, GM has reached out to do good deeds, too. For all three companies and every other company out there as well, what most people remember and will tell others about is what seems to be a glaring lack of concern by big companies to do what is right as seen from our humble point of view.
I work for a large company. What I do every day is combat the tendency toward "red tape" and the standard corporate line where everyone throws their hands up in the air and says it's company policy. I want stuff to be right, perfect, and good. I own what I produce (I write computer code and design databases) and my manager backs me up 100% because he thinks the same way. Our whole team puts out good stuff and fixes some of the not-so-perfect stuff that others produce.
So, when the computer in your car doesn't work right according to your point of view and then you approach the dealer to get them to help you and they don't, why does it now become GM's problem when the dealer is the one who's not letting you have access to GM's generous assistance?
I own a camera that is just over a year old. The second card slot has just stopped working. Can I call up the manufacturer and tell them they need to cover it because I think they should? Not gonna happen. Neither will that kind of attitude with GM, Dell, or MS, or most any other company. If I send it to them they might show some consideration and fix it for free or at a greatly reduced cost. But I can't expect that any more than anyone can expect GM to blindly ignore an expired car warranty.
I agree that the firmware (FW) should have been written more intelligently and that they should fix it without cost, but they are not obligated to do so and will choose to do so only if they feel like it. Get hostile with them and they'll leave you swingin' on the gallows!
I'll suggest that when you post things about our members such as Rodents, who is a truly decent man, that you take a second look at what you're saying and who you're saying it about. Once it's written it can't be taken back. Life doesn't have "do-overs" and there's no Undo button after you've said something. Instead of flaming others because you're having a bad day, see what you can do to find a solution. Once you've flamed someone it's about the same as burning the bridge you need to cross that river. Oopsie! Instead I suggest you get on a different path, one of finding a solution instead of laying the blame at the feet of one of our members, or the company he works for, or the industry in general, or the manufacturer. I know that's a hard thing to do these days but it takes effort to do good and it's so easy to whine when someone doesn't make it right.
What am I gonna do with my camera? Probably find a respected local company who has a good reputation so I can get it fixed and back in my hands in less than a month or two. What are you gonna do about your issue? Ball's in your court.
Nobody is saying that MS or Dell doesn't provide free fixes. It's apparent that your experience and training means that you're quite knowledgeable about MicroSoft in general and Dell in particular, along with an extensive electronics background.
That humorous interlude above wasn't meant to be true, nor is it substantiated that an MS car would crash for no apparent reason, etc, etc. It simply plays on the experience that everyone with a computer has had. MS has actually provided patches and fixes well beyond a "bumper-to-bumper" computer warranty whether MS was responsible or the cause was from outside sources. I'm sure Dell has done its good deeds as well. By the same token, GM has reached out to do good deeds, too. For all three companies and every other company out there as well, what most people remember and will tell others about is what seems to be a glaring lack of concern by big companies to do what is right as seen from our humble point of view.
I work for a large company. What I do every day is combat the tendency toward "red tape" and the standard corporate line where everyone throws their hands up in the air and says it's company policy. I want stuff to be right, perfect, and good. I own what I produce (I write computer code and design databases) and my manager backs me up 100% because he thinks the same way. Our whole team puts out good stuff and fixes some of the not-so-perfect stuff that others produce.
So, when the computer in your car doesn't work right according to your point of view and then you approach the dealer to get them to help you and they don't, why does it now become GM's problem when the dealer is the one who's not letting you have access to GM's generous assistance?
I own a camera that is just over a year old. The second card slot has just stopped working. Can I call up the manufacturer and tell them they need to cover it because I think they should? Not gonna happen. Neither will that kind of attitude with GM, Dell, or MS, or most any other company. If I send it to them they might show some consideration and fix it for free or at a greatly reduced cost. But I can't expect that any more than anyone can expect GM to blindly ignore an expired car warranty.
I agree that the firmware (FW) should have been written more intelligently and that they should fix it without cost, but they are not obligated to do so and will choose to do so only if they feel like it. Get hostile with them and they'll leave you swingin' on the gallows!
I'll suggest that when you post things about our members such as Rodents, who is a truly decent man, that you take a second look at what you're saying and who you're saying it about. Once it's written it can't be taken back. Life doesn't have "do-overs" and there's no Undo button after you've said something. Instead of flaming others because you're having a bad day, see what you can do to find a solution. Once you've flamed someone it's about the same as burning the bridge you need to cross that river. Oopsie! Instead I suggest you get on a different path, one of finding a solution instead of laying the blame at the feet of one of our members, or the company he works for, or the industry in general, or the manufacturer. I know that's a hard thing to do these days but it takes effort to do good and it's so easy to whine when someone doesn't make it right.
What am I gonna do with my camera? Probably find a respected local company who has a good reputation so I can get it fixed and back in my hands in less than a month or two. What are you gonna do about your issue? Ball's in your court.
That's the point, 1 I didn't start with the flaming I believe I was on he defense from the start.
Your comparing "it broke" to you shipped bad code. it was broke when the shipped it. Like I said if something broke on the car I would not expect GM or a dealer to fix it. Nor would I expect you camera manufacturer to fix your broken slot. If you write code you know the difference between the product broke and somebody wrote bad code. Its not the same thing.
Secondly just because he has been a long time member doesn't automatically make him "right" or allow them to speak to other members like rodents does. I'd get fired if I wrote something like that back to one of my customers.
I have no I'll feelings towards Rodents I respect his knowledge I'm sure he knows what he is doing professionally just like I do. So if I offended him I apologize . if you look I said repeatedly I agree about where he is coming from. I get customers all the time that want us to fix their whole infrastructure because we host the storage(I'm a storage engineer for sans/ cloud) We always laugh and say we have to fix it because our product is in the room and plugged in so it has to be our fault.
So if you write code you of all people should understand what I'm saying about bad code if anybody does, GM shipped it broken, it didn't break on me. Many items have worn out or broken , I've replaced them with out a second thought. Nothing mechanical lasts forever, it wears out. Code on the other hand DOES NOT WEAR out its either correct or not. if its not then it should be fixed at no cost. ALL computer companies fix their FW and OS patches for free. I've been in QA for over 15 years and in support (customer facing) for 15 years. End users cant fix bad code. In every company I worked for and I have worked for very large and small startups always fixed BUGS at no cost to the customer. if they wanted enhancements that's a different story. But BUGS such as I am encountering should be fixed free of charge period.
Its funny because he thinks a lot like I do actually about the feds and government being in our lives too much.
As for inspection of cars yearly , its a joke, here in NH any car newer than 15 years has to be emissions tested , shouldn't it be the other way around? Oh and now that I think of it, that's a good example of what I mean. If I took my car in for inspection and it failed emissions testing because of a FW bug in the ECM GM HAS to fix the issue for free. Why? because of the EPA they have to ship cars that meet emission standards.
That's why I said he and now you are comparing apples to oranges. My car is not broken or worn out like your camera. GM shipped it broken with a bug in the FW on the ECM and admitted its bad and a known issue. At that point they should just flashed it with the new FW and been done with it. If I determined it was a faulty/broken sensor I would have fixed it.
Read the whole thread, I was responding to what I interpreted as an attack that I was just a looser trying to get something for free. Not the case at all. Again if my car BROKE I would fix it like I always have, this is not the same thing.
So if I offended you rodents I didn't mean to, I was just responding to your aggressive responses. As for the comment about me thinking all garages are unethical on repairs , no not all are . But if you have been in he automotive repair business for a while you know just as well as I do, there are many, many garages that take advantage of unknowing customers. I had a garage attempt to fail may car one time because he thought my wipers were worn out. I screwed with him for a while about what makes him think the wipers are bad. he showed me his logic . Then I showed him the empty packages and receipt for the worn out wipers I had just put on 15 minutes before going in for inspection. he passed the car.
So I apologize if I offended anyone , but read the whole thread, I was on the defense from the get go.
One last note, how fast do you think GM would be tripping over themselves if the bug was " the engine shut down under certain condions at 65MPH " ? I'll call corporate GM service today, the local dealer will flash it free. They used to do this before when it was owned by the origanal family that had the dealership. it was recently sold as the original owner was getting too old to manage all the dealerships he started in Manchester. His family (kids) wasnt interested in continueing with dealership and sold it all off. The new owners dont understand what "customer service" is. I work on all my own cars and when i dont have the time I used to take it to this dealership as they were awesome in traging an issue and didn't just guess at what the problem was. Usually i would have found the issue , dropped it off and just told them what to replace,they were always fine with it. The new owners want to charge for diagnosys even if i tell them what to replace ,so i have found another garage that is out to make money "honestly" and doesnt have an issue with me calling and saying hey my water pump is bad, when can you replace it. Chevy , nope we need to diagnose the issue for you then we will replace what needs to be replaced.
Just an FYI, the issue is very reproducable , turn on the ignition disconnect the battery,the engine doesnt need to be running. A few times of this and you WILL hit the P0315 BUG. It happens ocassionally with the ignition off, which is what i have encountered. As you well know Rodents all TSB's dont get published externally , some are sent out as a internal corporate memo to dealships. One of the techs at this dealership that used to work on my corvette , said its a common known issue. When they run into this type of issue when working on a car , they just flash it and dont say anything to the customer.
Your comparing "it broke" to you shipped bad code. it was broke when the shipped it. Like I said if something broke on the car I would not expect GM or a dealer to fix it. Nor would I expect you camera manufacturer to fix your broken slot. If you write code you know the difference between the product broke and somebody wrote bad code. Its not the same thing.
Secondly just because he has been a long time member doesn't automatically make him "right" or allow them to speak to other members like rodents does. I'd get fired if I wrote something like that back to one of my customers.
I have no I'll feelings towards Rodents I respect his knowledge I'm sure he knows what he is doing professionally just like I do. So if I offended him I apologize . if you look I said repeatedly I agree about where he is coming from. I get customers all the time that want us to fix their whole infrastructure because we host the storage(I'm a storage engineer for sans/ cloud) We always laugh and say we have to fix it because our product is in the room and plugged in so it has to be our fault.
So if you write code you of all people should understand what I'm saying about bad code if anybody does, GM shipped it broken, it didn't break on me. Many items have worn out or broken , I've replaced them with out a second thought. Nothing mechanical lasts forever, it wears out. Code on the other hand DOES NOT WEAR out its either correct or not. if its not then it should be fixed at no cost. ALL computer companies fix their FW and OS patches for free. I've been in QA for over 15 years and in support (customer facing) for 15 years. End users cant fix bad code. In every company I worked for and I have worked for very large and small startups always fixed BUGS at no cost to the customer. if they wanted enhancements that's a different story. But BUGS such as I am encountering should be fixed free of charge period.
Its funny because he thinks a lot like I do actually about the feds and government being in our lives too much.
As for inspection of cars yearly , its a joke, here in NH any car newer than 15 years has to be emissions tested , shouldn't it be the other way around? Oh and now that I think of it, that's a good example of what I mean. If I took my car in for inspection and it failed emissions testing because of a FW bug in the ECM GM HAS to fix the issue for free. Why? because of the EPA they have to ship cars that meet emission standards.
That's why I said he and now you are comparing apples to oranges. My car is not broken or worn out like your camera. GM shipped it broken with a bug in the FW on the ECM and admitted its bad and a known issue. At that point they should just flashed it with the new FW and been done with it. If I determined it was a faulty/broken sensor I would have fixed it.
Read the whole thread, I was responding to what I interpreted as an attack that I was just a looser trying to get something for free. Not the case at all. Again if my car BROKE I would fix it like I always have, this is not the same thing.
So if I offended you rodents I didn't mean to, I was just responding to your aggressive responses. As for the comment about me thinking all garages are unethical on repairs , no not all are . But if you have been in he automotive repair business for a while you know just as well as I do, there are many, many garages that take advantage of unknowing customers. I had a garage attempt to fail may car one time because he thought my wipers were worn out. I screwed with him for a while about what makes him think the wipers are bad. he showed me his logic . Then I showed him the empty packages and receipt for the worn out wipers I had just put on 15 minutes before going in for inspection. he passed the car.
So I apologize if I offended anyone , but read the whole thread, I was on the defense from the get go.
One last note, how fast do you think GM would be tripping over themselves if the bug was " the engine shut down under certain condions at 65MPH " ? I'll call corporate GM service today, the local dealer will flash it free. They used to do this before when it was owned by the origanal family that had the dealership. it was recently sold as the original owner was getting too old to manage all the dealerships he started in Manchester. His family (kids) wasnt interested in continueing with dealership and sold it all off. The new owners dont understand what "customer service" is. I work on all my own cars and when i dont have the time I used to take it to this dealership as they were awesome in traging an issue and didn't just guess at what the problem was. Usually i would have found the issue , dropped it off and just told them what to replace,they were always fine with it. The new owners want to charge for diagnosys even if i tell them what to replace ,so i have found another garage that is out to make money "honestly" and doesnt have an issue with me calling and saying hey my water pump is bad, when can you replace it. Chevy , nope we need to diagnose the issue for you then we will replace what needs to be replaced.
Just an FYI, the issue is very reproducable , turn on the ignition disconnect the battery,the engine doesnt need to be running. A few times of this and you WILL hit the P0315 BUG. It happens ocassionally with the ignition off, which is what i have encountered. As you well know Rodents all TSB's dont get published externally , some are sent out as a internal corporate memo to dealships. One of the techs at this dealership that used to work on my corvette , said its a common known issue. When they run into this type of issue when working on a car , they just flash it and dont say anything to the customer.
Your point is well-taken. Now it's my turn to apologize if I offended you. It wasn't with the intention of doing so, but as you can see it's not that hard when writing instead of speaking face to face.
I agree that the FW didn't break but was shipped with a bug. I wish GM would step up and do what at least the 2 of us think is the right thing to do.
I still think that Rodents is a 100% stand-up person. As mentioned above, writing can be a means of communication that is less desirable, and as such can be taken differently than what was intended. His statements were direct but I never felt like I would have been offended if they had been directed at me. Others, you in particular, may feel differently.
It looks like the misunderstanding has been addressed and I won't need to say anything further on that part of this discussion.
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However, if the FW is buggy I agree 100% that GM should fix it since it's a simple flash. But looking way down the road, if they made the BCM or other modules open-source so that others could easily gain access they'd be opening a huge can of worms. While that would make it better for those of us who probably wouldn't mess with it (ok, maybe I would!) it would allow hackers to get in and possibly cause issues that could render a car unsafe to operate and that's just not a good idea no matter how ya look at it. So we're left with the best scenario being to visit the dealer for the patch. Now all we gotta do is see if GM will make the patch in a drive-thru or quick-serve method - get in, do it and nothing else, get out. Imagine the brownie points they'd get from customers! It's way cheaper than any advertising they pay for and I'm the type that says good things about folks who do good for me. Case in point: Doug Kendall at Montgomery Chevy on Preston in Louisville - great guy and really nice folks to do business with!
I agree that the FW didn't break but was shipped with a bug. I wish GM would step up and do what at least the 2 of us think is the right thing to do.
I still think that Rodents is a 100% stand-up person. As mentioned above, writing can be a means of communication that is less desirable, and as such can be taken differently than what was intended. His statements were direct but I never felt like I would have been offended if they had been directed at me. Others, you in particular, may feel differently.
It looks like the misunderstanding has been addressed and I won't need to say anything further on that part of this discussion.
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However, if the FW is buggy I agree 100% that GM should fix it since it's a simple flash. But looking way down the road, if they made the BCM or other modules open-source so that others could easily gain access they'd be opening a huge can of worms. While that would make it better for those of us who probably wouldn't mess with it (ok, maybe I would!
) it would allow hackers to get in and possibly cause issues that could render a car unsafe to operate and that's just not a good idea no matter how ya look at it. So we're left with the best scenario being to visit the dealer for the patch. Now all we gotta do is see if GM will make the patch in a drive-thru or quick-serve method - get in, do it and nothing else, get out. Imagine the brownie points they'd get from customers! It's way cheaper than any advertising they pay for and I'm the type that says good things about folks who do good for me. Case in point: Doug Kendall at Montgomery Chevy on Preston in Louisville - great guy and really nice folks to do business with!I toataly agree , cant tell you how many times i have written up a reply to a customer situtaion , only to go back and re-read it before hitting send . Because re-reading , i would not want to recieve that email . Emotions get lost in text.
Again I never meant to insult or undermine his repect on this forum.
So my apologies go out to all who read this thread. Specificaly Rodents , I obviously took his repsonses as pointed AT me as , instead of a general statement.
Bob
Again I never meant to insult or undermine his repect on this forum.
So my apologies go out to all who read this thread. Specificaly Rodents , I obviously took his repsonses as pointed AT me as , instead of a general statement.
Bob
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