3.6L 6 speed trans flush advice please

46181 Views 71 Replies 23 Participants Last post by SilverSport, Oct 1, 2018

scott37300

Discussion Starter · Dec 21, 2010

09 malibu 3.6L 6 speed with 50,000 miles on it. I was reading the owners maual and from what I understand the fluid is "lifetime" unless you fall under the severe duty catagory and then you need to change it at 50,000, is this correct?

I don't think I fall into the severe duty but I think I would like to change the fluid as a preventative maintenance thing, don't think it can hurt can it?

So if I do this do I need to flush it or can I drop the pan and drain and add new fluid? Also is there a servicable filter I need to change?

Any advice with this would be much appreciated,
Thanks,
Scott

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DrivenDaily

· #21 · Mar 26, 2011

Warning!

5thElement said:
LOL. Ya lets not change the fluid and just buy a new trans instead. Please stop posting here...

5thElement said:
At any rate there is NOTHING wrong with replacing the fluid. How the heck could fresh ATF be worse then OLD fluid is beyond me.

I understand the incredulity of that statement. But I'd suggest that instead of insulting the intelligence of the person posting, and revealing just how limited your maturity is, you should ask a question.

And don't take it upon yourself to start acting like you own this site. Anyone is allowed to post here if they follow the rules. Take you for example! But you're pushing it. This is the third comment of yours I've taken exception with. You need to think before you post further!

DrivenDaily

· #22 · Mar 26, 2011

Question on your advice

GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer said:
It's not recommended to flush the transmission or change fluid. The filter is not a general service item and not accessible for general service.

I'm curious about that statement.

Why is it not recommended to change the fluid? Like another post mentions, albeit in a demeaning way, why is new fluid replacing old fluid a bad thing?

I can understand that the trans was not designed with a serviceable filter, but that, too, seems a bit kooky to many. The trans has clutches and other wear items. As they wear the filter will collect the particles resulting from that wear. Is the filter so robust that it will go half a million miles but the trans won't? Are there no little orifices in this trans, like other transmissions, that would be affected by those particles? Did an engineer slip up by not making a replaceable filter a part of the design and now we're stuck with a non-serviceable component?

Your previous comments reflected what I would consider an intimate knowledge of the transmission and therefore tended to support the screen name you've chosen. But that statement calls the whole thing into question! I'd like you to PM me with your contact info so I can determine if you actually are what you say you are. Don't take offense at that, please. I'm responsible for taking care of this site, among others, and I want the members here to know whether you are who you say you are or not. Since today is Saturday I don't expect a reply but on Monday I will. Lacking that I may begin the process of preventing further posts until such time as we can determine how to handle this.

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GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer

· #23 · Mar 26, 2011 (Edited)

Re: Question on your advice

DrivenDaily said:
Why is it not recommended to change the fluid? Like another post mentions, albeit in a demeaning way, why is new fluid replacing old fluid a bad thing?

Due to the sensitve nature of the oil level setting procedure. The potential for a customer to change their own oil and set the level wrong is extremely high. There is a thermo element in the front cover. Due to the thremo element and ability of the trans to naturally cool itself, setting the oil at the correct trans operating temperature is critical. Incorrect setting can cause temp or other operational issues.

DrivenDaily said:
I can understand that the trans was not designed with a serviceable filter, but that, too, seems a bit kooky to many. The trans has clutches and other wear items. As they wear the filter will collect the particles resulting from that wear. Is the filter so robust that it will go half a million miles but the trans won't? Are there no little orifices in this trans, like other transmissions, that would be affected by those particles? Did an engineer slip up by not making a replaceable filter a part of the design and now we're stuck with a non-serviceable component?

The trans must be removed from the vehicle and taken apart to access the filter.

DrivenDaily said:
Your previous comments reflected what I would consider an intimate knowledge of the transmission and therefore tended to support the screen name you've chosen. But that statement calls the whole thing into question! I'd like you to PM me with your contact info so I can determine if you actually are what you say you are. Don't take offense at that, please. I'm responsible for taking care of this site, among others, and I want the members here to know whether you are who you say you are or not. Since today is Saturday I don't expect a reply but on Monday I will. Lacking that I may begin the process of preventing further posts until such time as we can determine how to handle this.

As an admin, you should have access to my email address that was used to register and receive replies. Send me an email. On the other side of things, do you require every person to verify who they say they are?

DrivenDaily

· #24 · Mar 26, 2011

Again your comments are very thorough and respectful. Thank you! It reflects a high degree of professionalism, which I'm sure every member here, including myself, appreciates.

Might I press you for a little more info, then, please? I truly enjoy my driving experiences and routinely use the manual shift button, both to upshift and to downshift. I try not to show brake lights unless I'm actually decelerating more quickly than engine braking will allow. On older models with EFI I learned while the engine is being overdriven through downshifting that the injectors actually shut off the fuel supply so it's not using any fuel like a carburetted engine would. Aside from the obvious increased wear on the clutches what effect does this have on the transmission and/or its individual components? Can you comment on whether or not the injectors are told to shut off the fuel supply in the Gen7 Malibu during engine braking?

As far as requiring every person to verify who they say they are, it's not asked. But it isn't most members who have a screen name such as yours. I am more confident than ever that you're the Real McCoy. But, as President Reagan once said, "Trust, but verify." For the sake of having absolute proof as an Admin for any questions members may have I'll go ahead and send you an email. And I thank you for suggesting it and allowing me to do so.

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DrivenDaily

· #25 · Mar 26, 2011

Caution!!!

5thElement said:
So GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer is flat out wrong and simply giving out some seriously bad advice IMO.

Yes you should drain and replace the ATF. Its not that complicated people. Drain the ATF and measure how much came out. Pour the same amount of fresh ATF back in. Drive the car around for a few days, and repeat at least once to get as much of the old ATF out. This is how its been done for decades.

Change the ATF or change the trans in the future, its your choice...

Dude, did you even read his post? To change the fluid you need to R&R the trans! And as for your advice about "how it's been done for decades", does nothing ever change or improve in your world?

I'm sure others who read this thread will recognize sound input when they see it, and then dismiss yours as bunk.

*********************************************************

So let me be perfectly clear on this, ok?

Your first post was like you had your hand out, asking for a freebie. You've been running around this site posting opinions without any factual basis, and you're unwilling to share any so-called source. Now you're calling others immature or refuting what is obviously sound advice.

For those reasons here is your warning: Be very careful about what you post in the future. This is a great site and I'm here to help keep it that way. Your opinions are allowed, but calling names or making false claims will not be allowed any further!

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DrivenDaily

· #26 · Mar 27, 2011

Caution!!!

5thElement said:
So GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer is flat out wrong and simply giving out some seriously bad advice IMO.

Yes you should drain and replace the ATF. Its not that complicated people. Drain the ATF and measure how much came out. Pour the same amount of fresh ATF back in. Drive the car around for a few days, and repeat at least once to get as much of the old ATF out. This is how its been done for decades.

Change the ATF or change the trans in the future, its your choice...

A real mechanic that ACTUALLY works on transmission repair will laugh in your face if you tell him a trans does not need an ATF change for 200k. Again horrible advice by GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer. I personally have seen trans go bad just after 100k due to burnt ATF. It seems GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer is simply spitting out statistics under controlled unrealistic environments or so if whatever he is stating is even published anywhere.

5thElement said:
LOL. Ya lets not change the fluid and just buy a new trans instead. Please stop posting here...

Take a look at your comments that I have bolded.

If that ain't calling names then maybe more precisely it's making inflammatory comments about someone without having complete knowledge. Or in your case without having a thread of consideration for another individual.

You also tried to refute those comments with a let's-jump-on-the-bandwagon approach instead of citing any real research. Put up your proof or shut up.

You're too busy trying to put forward your own opinion, and when we don't buy it, you begin with the put-downs in a lame effort to make yourself look bigger than the other guy. That doesn't work with me! And it doesn't set well with others on this site.

Calm down with the rhetoric and put-downs. If you have something to say we'll listen. If you object, do it respectfully. If you believe you have evidence to refute another person's post, provide it. If not, don't post your opinion as fact. I know only one person who can do that, and you're not God!

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GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer

· #27 · Mar 27, 2011 (Edited)

5thElement said:
I personally have seen trans go bad just after 100k due to burnt ATF.

FYI, Burnt clutches cause "burnt" oil, not the inverse.

My parents have a 1990 suburban that's got 230K on it. The trans has never been flushed or fluid changed. The trans oil is still red. Similiar results with a K5 blazer with 200K and a S-10 Blazer with 180K we owned. Luck? Oh, I forgot the 93 lincoln (210K), 1997 lincoln (180K), 1997 Lumina (160K), and a 2004 Tahoe (100K) that have followed a similiar life with no flushes or oil changes.

5thElement said:
It seems GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer is simply spitting out statistics under controlled unrealistic environments or so if whatever he is stating is even published anywhere.

Please post the documentation stating that this transmission requires regular trans flushes or oil changes.

BlinkQS

· #28 · Mar 27, 2011

2

GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer said:
Because the mechanic knows more about it than the people who designed it??

My parents have a 1990 suburban that's got 230K on it. The trans has never been flushed or fluid changed. The trans oil is still red. Similiar results with a K5 blazer with 200K and a S-10 Blazer with 180K we owned. Luck? Oh, I forgot the 93 lincoln (210K), 1997 lincoln (180K), 1997 Lumina (160K), and a 2004 Tahoe (100K) that have followed a similiar life with no flushes or oil changes.

Please post the documentation stating that this transmission requires trans flushes or oil changes.

My transmission was leaking trans fluid at 38,000 miles, I really wish it was designed better. My mechanic had to fix an issue that was designed by the designers. I am not the only one who has had a leaking transmission on a 7th Generation Malibu.

That is very nice that your parents had vehicles that didn't have the trans fluid flushed or fluid changed. And yes, THEY are lucky that nothing happened to the transmissions. The link below goes to a thread where a member had changed his trans fluid, and it definitely wasn't red at 60,000 miles. I would not be comfortable driving a car past 100,000 miles and knowing that the trans fluid has not been changed yet, whether it being severe service driving, or casual. I am going to have to agree with 5thElement that fresh fluid is better than continuously driving on old fluid.

http://www.chevymalibuforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6391

And since you asked for the documentation stating when the transmission requires a fluid change... here you go. This comes straight out of my 2008 Chevy Malibu's Owners Manual. Should be done at 50,000, 100,000 and 150,000. And don't give us the BS that oh, we're probably not driving it under "severe conditions." I am finding it disrespectful that you are telling the CMF members here that they don't need to change the trans fluid.

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scott37300

Discussion Starter · #29 · Mar 27, 2011

Wow this thread sure went to crap since I posted it!

I did a lot of research when I was looking into this, I am not an engineer or a mechanic but do have experience with auto maintenance.

I do not believe in "lifetime fluid". Yes it can be lifetime fluid when eventually the tranny fails the fluid is also done. I don't care what any engineer or mechanic says, no fluid is lifetime. I can run the same engine oil and my engine will probably go for 100,000 miles without problems but then the engine will die eventually. Would that be called "lifetime" engine oil? Because the oil lasted the whole "life" of the engine. Chevy calls for fluid changes for severe duty, so there is absolutely NO reason why the fluid can't be changed at regular intervals, NONE. If you want to believe in "lifetime" fluid than that is your choice, of coarse the fluid is going to last the lifetime of the tranny, but now you have to wonder what defines the lifetime of the tranny, and if changing the fluid would have extended the life of the tranny.

My 6T70 has a dipstick and a drain plug. It got a fluid change. It will continue to get fluid changes. And I will guarantee that by changing the fluid it will get the most life out of the tranny possible. Changing the fluid isn't going to hurt the transmission, why would chevy put a dipstick on it if the fluid level was so complicated? They wouldn't. Now as far as the engineers that decided they would make the choice for me that I don't need to change the filter, well in my opinion they are very wrong and should be paying for new transmissions when they fail. I could never change my oil filter when I change the oil but eventually it will clog, just like the transmission filter will eventually which will lead to transmission failure. If a filter is needed it should be replacable, period. No engineer should be able to decide that my filter never needs to be changed, why even have a filter then? Basically the engineers are putting a limit to the life of the tranny. If I chose not to do maintenance on my car that is my choice but when an engineer decides for me that a filter that should be changed is not changable that is wrong.

Trannies are the weak links in most vehicles, they need to be serviced to get the most out of them.

In the end we are all responsible for our own vehicles and can decide what we do to them as far as upkeep, unless engineers decide for us. But there is no such thing as lifetime filters and fluid.

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RalphP

· #30 · Mar 28, 2011

If I can add my two cents in to BlinkQS's posting - I live in Louisiana, drive through East Texas a lot.

About 100 days a year the temps exceed 90F.

So by the definitions posted IN THE OWNER'S MANUAL, even Aunt Gertie (who only drives to/from church on Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, to the doctor once every six months, and to the Save-A-Lot every Thursday) is ... under extreme driving conditions for over 1/4 the year!

Let me just add that any designer - ANY designer - of automatic transmissions that does NOT include an easy way to check and top off fluid SHOULD be the one that pays for when a transmission seal starts leaking and the thing runs low.

Currently, since I DON'T have level ground to check it on, I can only wait until it neutralizes on a hard left when cold and add 1/2 quart until I can afford to get the leaking seal (passenger transaxle) replaced.

Must be nice to be able to design vehicles that do not consider the real world. Also must be nice to be able to claim that anyone who DOES drive in the real world is wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.

RwP

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GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer

· #31 · Mar 28, 2011 (Edited)

5thElement said:
Thank you BlinkQS for demolishing GM_6T40 Trans_Engineers credibility with the pics you posted. People like him are a big problem in online forums today and very dangerous to be left unchecked.

Demolish? Really? I invite you to reread the manual.

Thanks to BlinkQS for posting the pictures. It verifies what was mentioned prior to me posting, and validates what I've said since joining. The recommendation to change fluid every 50K is for severe service only (page 6-6). And page 6-7 gives the definition of severe service.

5thElement said:
I personally dont believe at all that he is even a GM employee or engineer of any kind.

Driven daily can verify.

5thElement said:
Forums can be dangerous when there is misinformation spewed like this and with your post we have the undeniable proof to make this forum a better and safer place.

You are sharing the misinformation, not me.

scott37300

Discussion Starter · #32 · Mar 28, 2011 (Edited)

trans engineer-explain something to me please.

Why would chevy say that the fluid needs to be changed for severe duty but then you say that changing the fluid is a bad thing? How can preventative maintenance be a bad thing, no matter if you car is severe duty or not? If it's required for severe duty driving then it won't hurt anything to change the fluid in normal driving. It's a sad day when a car company decides to chose for me that I can't change fluids and filters that need to be changed. You don't have to be an engineer in order to realize that if a filter is needed that it will eventually clog and need to be changed, or it will lead to trans failure-but the filter lasted the life of the trans. You also don't have to be an engineer to realize that no transmission fluid is lifetime, they break down and lose the properties that make them work, which will lead to trans failure-but the fluid lasted the life of the trans. Chevy decided for us that we shouldn't change the fluid or filter and it will last the lifetime of the transmission. Of coarse it will last because once it fails the trans will also so yes, the fluid lasted the life of the trans.

You can say the same thing as far as engine oil goes. I can never change my oil and filter, and I will personally guarantee it will last as long as the engine does. Althought the engine will not last as long as if you were to change the oil and filter.

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Lgndryhr

· #33 · Mar 28, 2011

I too am wondering how never changing the trans fluid is truly the right thing to do. My understanding is you never want it to get dark or burned. So in order to avoid this you must change it.

DrivenDaily

· #34 · Mar 28, 2011

GM_6T40 Trans_Engineer said:
...

Thanks to BlinkQS for posting the pictures. It verifies what was mentioned prior to me posting, and validates what I've said since joining. The recommendation to change fluid every 50K is for severe service only (page 6-6). And page 6-7 gives the definition of severe service.

...

Driven daily can verify.

...

scott37300 said:
trans engineer-explain something to me please.

Why would chevy say that the fluid needs to be changed for severe duty but then you say that changing the fluid is a bad thing? How can preventative maintenance be a bad thing, no matter if you car is severe duty or not? If it's required for severe duty driving then it won't hurt anything to change the fluid in normal driving. It's a sad day when a car company decides to chose for me that I can't change fluids and filters that need to be changed. You don't have to be an engineer in order to realize that if a filter is needed that it will eventually clog and need to be changed, or it will lead to trans failure-but the filter lasted the life of the trans. You also don't have to be an engineer to realize that no transmission fluid is lifetime, they break down and lose the properties that make them work, which will lead to trans failure-but the fluid lasted the life of the trans. Chevy decided for us that we shouldn't change the fluid or filter and it will last the lifetime of the transmission. Of coarse it will last because once it fails the trans will also so yes, the fluid lasted the life of the trans.

You can say the same thing as far as engine oil goes. I can never change my oil and filter, and I will personally guarantee it will last as long as the engine does. Althought the engine will not last as long as if you were to change the oil and filter.

Lgndryhr said:
I too am wondering how never changing the trans fluid is truly the right thing to do. My understanding is you never want it to get dark or burned. So in order to avoid this you must change it.

Engineer's item 1. Severe service causes the trans to need serviced at 50,000 miles. Since the trans has been designed in such a way that service by the owner can cause near-certain failure, GM should make that a covered service throughout the transmission's warranty period.
Engineer's item 2. I can verify that he works at GM. I trust that he's an engineer, but if he's not we'll let GM catch up to him. Until/if that happens then I'm happy to accept his word that he's an engineer who works on/with the team that is charged with the design of the transmissions in the Malibu and others.

Scott's item 1. Indeed, how can it be bad to prevent instead of fix?
Scott's item 2. All filters clog. If they don't then they're not filtering, or they just aren't needed! Maybe this one cleans itself?
Scott's item 3. All tranny fluid eventually needs changed. Why was something so critical as the thermo element (in the front of the trans case) made a part of the trans without some way to make it less sensitive to filling?

Lgndryhr's item. When a transmission works the clutches shed particles. Those particles are what need to be filtered to prevent accelerated wear, and the process of burning a clutch now and then will cause the fluid to appear burnt as well. The fluid needs regular service changes just like the engine oil does!

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Lgndryhr

· #35 · Mar 28, 2011

DrivenDaily said:
Lgndryhr's item. When a transmission works the clutches shed particles. Those particles are what need to be filtered to prevent accelerated wear, and the process of burning a clutch now and then will cause the fluid to appear burnt as well. The fluid needs regular service changes just like the engine oil does!

I knew about the shed particles part. I just didn't know what happened otherwise, haha. Thanks DrivenDaily! So basically its needs changing too just not as often as oil does.

chevyguy8893

· #36 · Mar 28, 2011

So, basically what I gather from all of this is that the damage is most likely to be incurred from a, very possible, transmission fluid over or under fill. Also, the possibility of pouring in the wrong fluid and causing damage. My trans fluid at 60K, when I changed it, was not burnt in any way just dirty from the friction material on the clutches. I do believe though that due to the mileage on the car and the climate that the car was in it fell under severe service and was due to be changed.

Checking fluid level on these transmissions varies between the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder models. The 6 cylinder trans has a dipstick which allows for the fluid level to be checked, but to find the proper level for the vehicle depends on the temperature the trans is at. Same goes for the 4 cylinder version regarding temperature, but there is not a dipstick to check the fluid level. These are checked at a certain temperature and by removing a plug on the trans.

Both of these fluid level checks require knowing the trans temperature to verify it is at the correct level. If it is not at the correct level is when damage can occur. I am not sure if all I am thinking here is correct, but it is how I gather it to be from what I have read through all of this.

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DrivenDaily

· #37 · Mar 29, 2011

chevyguy8893 said:
So, basically what I gather from all of this is that the damage is most likely to be incurred from a, very possible, transmission fluid over or under fill. Also, the possibility of pouring in the wrong fluid and causing damage. My trans fluid at 60K, when I changed it, was not burnt in any way just dirty from the friction material on the clutches. I do believe though that due to the mileage on the car and the climate that the car was in it fell under severe service and was due to be changed.

Checking fluid level on these transmissions varies between the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder models. The 6 cylinder trans has a dipstick which allows for the fluid level to be checked, but to find the proper level for the vehicle depends on the temperature the trans is at. Same goes for the 4 cylinder version regarding temperature, but there is not a dipstick to check the fluid level. These are checked at a certain temperature and by removing a plug on the trans.

Both of these fluid level checks require knowing the trans temperature to verify it is at the correct level. If it is not at the correct level is when damage can occur. I am not sure if all I am thinking here is correct, but it is how I gather it to be from what I have read through all of this.

That brings up a very good point in my mind.

If the temperature of the transmission, not necessarily the engine, is critical to proper filling, where's the transmission temperature display so I know when to check the level and adjust it as necessary? Why is the car now the expert and not the owner? I asked the car but it didn't answer.

chevyguy8893

· #38 · Mar 29, 2011

DrivenDaily said:
That brings up a very good point in my mind.

If the temperature of the transmission, not necessarily the engine, is critical to proper filling, where's the transmission temperature display so I know when to check the level and adjust it as necessary? Why is the car now the expert and not the owner? I asked the car but it didn't answer.

I wish it were as simple as asking the car what's wrong or how are you feeling today

. It would save a world of trouble and make my job easier.

The only thing I have seen the trans temperature reading on is the trucks. The cars' trans temp reading is pulled up with the tech II.

I am going to add how to check fluid condition and hope this doesn't cause problems.
-The fluid should be red in color. When it is brown it doesn't mean there is an issue, it is just the material from the clutches, and happens under normal use as stated before.

-If the fluid is black or has a burnt odor then it should be checked for excessive material or metal, and driven and checked over for any issues. If there are no other issues the fluid is safe to change.

-If the fluid is milky in color it may indicate a contamination issue of water or coolant. This is just bad no matter what.

scott37300

Discussion Starter · #39 · Mar 29, 2011

DrivenDaily said:
That brings up a very good point in my mind.

If the temperature of the transmission, not necessarily the engine, is critical to proper filling, where's the transmission temperature display so I know when to check the level and adjust it as necessary? Why is the car now the expert and not the owner? I asked the car but it didn't answer.

In my opinion GM made the decision for us that we don't need to do anything to the transmission, just run them till they fail. Which is very wrong to me. They don't give you a way to check the fluid properly due to not being able to tell the temp. They tell you not to change the fluid. They don't give you a servicable filter to change. They don't make filling them easy in any way. They took out anything good for the transmission. It's like having a kid and never taking them to the doctor for checkups until they die. But claiming their "fluids" lasted the life of the body. Just drive it till it dies, cars have become disposable items. If they last five years with no maintenance then the manufacturers are happy, everything after that is all proffit for them.

Why make fluid changes easy? That would stretch out the life of the trans. Which means they don't make thousands of dollars on you for a trans replacement.

The whole thinking of lifetime fluid and filters is very wrong. And I understand that GM doesn't want some people messing with the fluid because if they mess up it will lead to failure, but for them to take that away from me and shorten the life of my tranny isn't a choice they should be allowed to make. And then make false claims of lifetime fluid and lifetime filters.

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chevyguy8893

· #40 · Mar 29, 2011 (Edited)

5thElement said:
Its not very difficult to change ATF people. No you dont have to worry about all the fluid temperature nonsense. Thats ONLY if you have have no idea how much fluid to fill. Its simple, drain the fluid and collect it all. Measure how much was drained, pour same amount back in. No need to bother with measuring temperature while filling the fluid.

Checking the fluid level is important to keep the trans in good shape though. Doing it properly is what is going to keep it that way. The fluid temperature needs to be in a certain range to properly indicate the level, so yes the fluid temperature is important. What's to say the fluid level was correct before draining it? For how expensive a trans is to overhaul it is better to air on the side of safety. What I there was a leak that the owner didn't see? There are to many risks to do it as simple as drain and fill unless you know for sure it was fine before.

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