[Orient Master]

Ok i have a question about converting my 98 malibu key ignition into a push button ignition. I have everything figured out except the antitheft "hall switch" on the key cylinder.

I have a switch, relay, momentary push button combo that is going to be the replacement for the ignition switch.

I have taken apart the key cylinder and ignition switch a few times on my car and figured out which combination of wires to connect and disconnect and in what order as you turn the key from position 0# (putting the key into the slot), 1# (radio), 2# (all electronics), 3# (momentary crank).

I have also bypassed the shifter lock what ever you call it. weather or not that one is safe, I am sure it's there for a reason. But one day the key got jammed and the shifter lock piece got broken and wouldn't let the key turn so i had to bypass it and well.... never turned back. I know bash me for that one all you want. I'm ok with it.

But my last part is getting past the Antitheft switch. which i found out it's just a passlock which is a magnet located in the key cylinder passing a hall effect sensor in the key housing. which activates a resistor which the BCM reads and activates the fuel pump, and something else forgot right now.

I have read that any resistor (perferably between a 2k and 4k resistor) in place of the sensor will work, just doing the relearn process to teach the BCM the new resistors level. Correct me if I am wrong on anything so far.

I just need to know when the sensor is activated and deactivated like the key position 2# or 3#. I have read that you can place a switch in line with the sensor. Flip on the switch, turn on the car, flip off the switch, runs normal from that point on, bypassing the sensor just with the security light on the dash turned on. which is going into fail safe mode. which is not what i am wanting to do. I want to keep the car thinking it still has the key cylinder and ignition switch just it not really being there.

I will have to come up with a pic of my idea of the wiring of the switch, relay, push button combo to clear somethings up.

 

[Orient Master]

Ok this image shows what i have setup to go inside my car to replace the existing key ignition. now the wiring setup i just gave letters to being i really dont know which wire dose what. but I opened up the ignition switch itself and wrote down which pins get connected and disconnected when you turn the key from position #0, #1, #2, #3.

The plug #1 and plug #2 are what I see that is plugged into the ignition switch

I guess I could have used a double pole single throw switch. Open/Close. The "X" signify not being used.

In #0 the only pins connected were the pins D-I
In #1 pins A-H, and E-C
In #2 pins A-H, A-G, E-C, E-B
In #3 pins A-H, A-F, E-B

So as long as the key was in pins D-I are connected.

Position 2 just adds A-G, and E-B. so we can really skip position #1 and have the switch activate E-B, and A-H right away. A-G and E-C have to be disconnected when the push button is pressed so they are on a relay normally closed which completes their circuits.

Position 3 is the push button that activates the relay that opens A-G, E-C circuits and closes the A-F circuit.

I have the push button powered by a question mark because I am not sure which pin has the constant 12 volt. which ever wire it is I would be tapping that wire to activate the relay.

Now pins D and I are not shown to be connected to anything but they probably are going to be connected with the main switch as in a triple pole single throw design.

So to start the car I would flip the main switch to activate all the electronics in the car. and then push the button to crank the engine. drive as normal and then flip the switch off to kill the engine and turn off all the electric components.


Back to my first question where to put the antitheft sensor. or can it just put the resistor in and hide it all together.

Does this all make since. It does in my head at least. again correctme if I am wrong.

 

[DrivenDaily]

I see a few issues that I'm sure you can work out.

1. When pushing the button to engage the relay, how does the relay stay on?

2. Once the relay is on, how is it disengaged?

3. To simplify the whole process why not set it up so that pressing the switch wakes up the car AND starts it, and pressing it again shuts it down? Then you'd need to use the key only if you wanted ACC.

4. You have 3 powered positions on the switch, 2 of which are "constant" when the key is turned to that position: ACC and RUN. To keep the wiring simple I'd use a separate relay, like the 40A kind for fog lights, for each of your circuits. Easier to debug or correct in the future, and the wires are not all jammed into one spot, unless you're trying to keep it as small as possible. In that case, get a PC board and PC relays you solder onto the board. Then fashion a connector for it, etc.

5. You can get a pressure-sensitive switch at AutoZone (and others) that is very thin and just uses adhesive to install, about the size of a postage stamp. It has a circuit for push on-push off in the control module it comes with, so your ON-OFF from a push button is already solved for you and the switch can be put just about anywhere, like on the overhead console or inside somewhere, etc.

6. Will you be soldering your connections and/or using heat shrink to insulate them?

I like the idea of what you're doing. I'd love to have that in mine as well. Someday I just might...

 

[Orient Master]

1. Since the push button is only momentary the relay is only powered when the button is pushed. The relay only needs to stay powered for staring the car. the relay has two positions when in the off position (in the picture) the top three pins are connected to the middle three pins. Example. top left with middle left, top right with middle right, top middle with middle middle. So the connections are closed for the running part of the car.

2. The relay is only engaged with the push button. when the button is not being pushed the relay reverts back to the off position. (In the picture) the two green and two yellow wires are connected when the relay is off. The orange and blue wires are connected when the relay is powered on and the green and yellow wires are disconnected. That is what happens in the ignition switch when the key is turned to the 3rd position, so i copied the actions.

3. I thought about that and not sure how to make the button act as a momentary for the crank and a on/off for the regular circuits.

4. I dont understand what you mean on three powered positions on the switch. the switch has two poles that are connecting (in the pic) dark red with light red and yellow, and the orange with the green and blue. the relay has three poles that when not powered connect the two green and the two yellow, and when the relay is powered the greens and the yellows are disconnected and the orange and blue wires are connected.

5. Not bad of idea. I have seen that item at autozone. nothing wrong with that item just want something with a little more body. this car is not the fanciest. doesnt need super fancy switches.

6. Soldering the wires to blade terminals which will clip right into the switch and relay blades. Yes any spot that will be soldered will have heat shrink tubing.

In the 98 Malibu the connections are pretty simple. I will atemp this conversion as soon as i figure out the Antitheft part.

 

[Orient Master]

How is this for a revise.

 

[Orient Master]

I though about just taking the magnet out of the key cylinder and just taping it to the sensor and just hiding it behind the dash. so that the hall effect sensor is activated at all times. hows that sound as a very simple answer.

But then again I found this web page http://www.bergerweb.net/grandamsecurityfix.htm that gives me an option as to completely bypass the antitheft. what do yall think?

 

[RalphP]

One thing to keep in mind - what would keep me from jimmying the driver's door open, then using your pushbutton to drive your car off?

I like the pushbutton ignition, but I like the fact that someone would have to WORK to steal my car more

RwP

 

[Orient Master]

One thing to keep in mind - what would keep me from jimmying the driver's door open, then using your pushbutton to drive your car off?

I like the pushbutton ignition, but I like the fact that someone would have to WORK to steal my car more

RwP

True about the stealing the car bit. I have thought about that and have been looking at doing a few things about that mainly two things...... By hiding the main switch like under the dash so that to start the car you must reach under the dash or somewhere just out out reach but close enough that doing this day in and day out isn't to much of a hassle. Or replacing the main switch with a relay and the first relay be activated by a hall sensor and hiding the hall sensor just on the other side of the dash and then next to a peace of metal so that all i have to do is lay a magnet on the dash so that it sticks to the metal activating the hall sensor then activating the first relay activating the car.

Something along those lines as a form of security.


I have also looked at a dead mans switch in the seat of the driver, or instead of the hall sensor using a RFID type of device like the car hops of sonic. (but the RFID is kinda hi tech for me)

Any other suggestions????

 

[RalphP]

The RFID solution is available as a kit, BTW. http://www.auto-hub.com/stardrive_push_start_ignition.html .

Now THAT is one way to do it!

RwP

 

[DrivenDaily]

Wow, that is awesome! I'd love to have that. I think I'll start saving now...

Or maybe use my tax refund...

Hmmm. Lots to think about here!

I've sent an email for more info. If I find out anything I'll post it in this thread.

 

[Orient Master]

I like the brake being used as a security switch to activate the button. that way a kid just playing in the car can push the button but nothing happen. Not until the break is pushed is the button powered and then can be pushed. I might have to figure a way for me to incorporate this into my design.

 

[DrivenDaily]

CAUTION ON USING THE BRAKE PEDAL AS A SECURITY MEASURE!

The Malibu does not have a common brake light switch. It uses a brake pedal position sensor. It is more like a volume control. It is not active when the ignition is OFF, so even if you find the wire for the CHMSL to use as a signal for the Start/Stop switch, it won't be active until power has been turned on to either the ACC or RUN position.

The way you can test this for yourself is to do the following while stepping on the brake:
> Remove key. No brake lights!
> Insert key and leave in OFF position. No brake lights!
> Turn key to ACC. Brake lights turn on.
> Turn key to ON (or RUN) position (not START). Brake lights turn on.

 

[acosta512]

The RFID solution is available as a kit, BTW. http://www.auto-hub.com/stardrive_push_start_ignition.html .

Now THAT is one way to do it!

RwP

Ohh ohh I like this need to get with the guys at Coustom Sounds and see how much they will charge for this install!

 

[Starship]

I, however, am not impressed. I drove a rental Altima a couple of weeks ago. I kept on catching myself getting out of that thing with various things left inside or running (key fob in the charging slot, transmission in drive, engine running, etc.).

As to "kid just playing in the car," a true story... Years ago I was at a filling station. I saw this guy pulls in and gets out with the engine running and then goes inside to prepay. A couple minutes later his little VW takes off like a bat outta and hits the dumpster. It turns out a toddler decided to "play" daddy. The thing is, the kid must have carefully observed the dad stepping on the brake pedal and taking the shifter out of PARK.

 

[Orient Master]

"The kid playing in car" well that's part of why I need to mess with the ignition of my car anyways. My key cylinder was already starting to act up with the original key by getting stuck and only working with the key facing a specific way. But my baby "Dylan" decide to put the van key into the Malibu slot. The cylinder got stuck but the van key came right out. So the tumblers in the cylinder got stuck and the cylinder wouldn't turn to crank the engine. Couldn't even get the radio to turn on. After about 30 min of trying to shake the tumblers loose. The key finally turned. Got home took the cylinder apart and had to remove some of the tumblers. So pretty much I can turn the car on with any thing just as long as I can turn the cylinder.

I need to remove the bad cylinder and find a more secure way of starting my car. What better time than now to convert the car into a push button start haha.

 

[Orient Master]

Oh just today I got the passlock "hallsensor" switch removed from the key housing and removed the magnet from the key cylinder and just taped them together so that the car thinks the correct key is turning the cylinder all the time. The idea came to me because the cylinder was already going to be trashed might as well just keep the old security sensor and just pull it out of the cylinder and just keep it active. So instead of just doing the fail safe mode with the security light on all the time I just tricked the car into thinking the right key is turning the cylinder lock all the time. Now time to make the real button and relay harness. I will try to take pictures to show.

 

[disarm]

i know i'm late(1 month old thread), but i will give it a try anyway..

Like you said earlier you wanted something theft-safe (anyway.. safer then an screwdriver's ignition) taping the key's magnet on the hs was kinda a good idea since remote starter's industry do almost the same thing. But for more safety, i would use the device they use to bypass hallsensor. it's a blackbox with a coiled wire who's supossed to be winded around the key's barrel. It is activated with a built-in relay so you only have 2 wires coming out of this box +the coiled wire, you could put a pressure switch under the carpet(where you'll be able to access with your foot, but not too-easy-so-the-child-find-it) which will then activate the device.. not a power hungry thingy so no need for relay or whatever, only a fuse would be a good idea for troubleshooting.

i will try to find the name of that device and edit this post then

UNIVERSAL BYPASS MODULE is the name in question, found one on ebay at 15$

my 2cents. hope it helps and.. i would love pictures if it's not too late !

 

[Orient Master]

about the Universal Bypass Module I like the Idea because just getting the magnet and Hall Sensor out of the key housing was a pain in the A**.